Covert Operations - General (2101 - 2124)

[Kassiopeia]

An Angel alliance sounds good. Their team, from a metagame view point, isn't exactly the most vibrant or strongest around, at least as far as roleplay is concerned. This may give us a certain psychological edge to use as well: we could offer our strategic know-how to them as well as more material goods like direct military protection. Their lack of RP also means that there is the least tension between our two factions - OTOH, that plays for the Morganites and Gaians as well.

I do wonder how the Angels will take it - they will probably surmise that if the two of us will dominate the rest of Planet, they will be the ones in trouble (unless co-operative victory is on, IIRC it is not).

We should be careful about this. If we appear too desperate they'll get a whiff of it - I support a rather aggressive posture that'll make them feel relieved when we quietly sneak the pact option in. It would require a good deal of tact and cunning though.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
We should be careful about this. If we appear too desperate they'll get a whiff of it - I support a rather aggressive posture that'll make them feel relieved when we quietly sneak the pact option in. It would require a good deal of tact and cunning though.

And who better than the venerable Captain Kassiopeia (who is twiddling his thumbs in garrison duty at the moment anyway!!) aided and abetted as needed by Major GeneralTacticus?

[Zeiter]

Yeah, we don't want to seem desparate. They should be feeling overwhelming relief for the fact that we aren't attacking them when we offer a pact. And, of course, there should be an expiration date - perhaps 20 years? If we stipulate it for too long, they may feel that we are being pushy. However, if we stipulate the length of the pact as too short, they'll think it's just a cheap ploy to get a peek at their datalinks and exploit them for tech. We need to make it very clear to them what they have to gain, as well as what we have to gain by this. We also need to convince them of why allying with us would be any better than, say, Morgan, who will probaby we stronger than us. And finally, I think we should slowly ease up to it. Again, if we ask for a pact on first contact, that will reek of desperation. We need to have about 5-10 years of favorable relations first so that both parties have adequate trust in each other.

[Kassiopeia]

And who better than the venerable Captain Kassiopeia (who is twiddling his thumbs in garrison duty at the moment anyway!!) aided and abetted as needed by Major GeneralTacticus?

Not that I have anything against twiddling my thumbs.

And, of course, there should be an expiration date - perhaps 20 years?

Interesting suggestion. I am not sure if mention of an expiration date will win over the hearts of the Datatechian. Be it 20, or 200 turns, their alarm will ring, and for a good reason. Altogether insinuating that it's clearly a temporary solution will put our attempts in jeopardy. Then again, would a frank and honest approach be a better idea? Is it not obvious that the pact will not be indefinite?

We also need to convince them of why allying with us would be any better than, say, Morgan, who will probaby be stronger than us.

That's imperative. I believe that we should use Morgan's police rating to his disadvantage. Morgan may provide immaterial help like credits and technology, but he can't provide the hardware. Add the fact that we're the most military-geared human faction on Planet, and we should be a deterrent on our own might. So, perhaps we suggest to them:

We'll give you a good deterrent to use against anyone wanting to make a grab for you, and in exchange we'll just help ourselves to a few tech here and there. And on top of that, if anyone attacks you, we'll come to your defence - after all, your wellbeing with your elite probes is equally important to us. And the better our weapons are, the higher your chances of survival are. It would be a jackpot if they are in the middle of the map - they can reach anyone easily, but so can everyone else reach them.

We should also note that Morgan might not be a good idea for a pactmate: they'd be practically submissives to the Morganites who have no specific need for their special abilities, and who can provide nothing tangible in return - whereas we can help them as equal partners,with something they themselves can not reach that easily, military strength.

Besides, an alliance between a strong Morgan and any other human faction is bound to become a target of a grand alliance of some kind. It's the nature of the game, the weak gang up on the strong - hence it's a bad idea to be strong, at least until you can become so strong that the rest of the world is a trifle matter.

Now I just need to figure out why the Gaians are poor pactmates.

And finally, I think we should slowly ease up to it. Again, if we ask for a pact on first contact, that will reek of desperation. We need to have about 5-10 years of favorable relations first so that both parties have adequate trust in each other.

Exactly. Not in the first contact, after a while of hobnobbing at the respective embassies.

[Kassiopeia]

However, we really need to have a contingency plan in case the Angels refuse. I see that as a distinct possibility: a refusal may result from anything from sheer inherent distrust to internal struggle.

There was a succesful alliance in ACDG2 was there not? We should do our best to draw parallels between the Spartan-Angel union and that one.

Perhaps we should continue this discussion in the Foreign Office?

[Dis]

we could try to ally with the gaians as a contingency . They would be more likely to agree I would think. But the benefits to each of us would be less. But it's something to consider if they are close. either that, or conquer them

[Kassiopeia]

Hmm, good idea. We should formulate a Plan B, a similar exercise in the art of persuasion, but directed at the Gaians. Figuring out the weaknesses of their team as a pactmate would be a good basis to structure some thoughts on how to convince them that a Gaian-Spartan pact would be in their best interests. The RP angle makes me go hmmm, though. They are a staunchly pacifist faction, perhaps try to plead to their sensibility and remind them that they will need military mettle sooner or later, and be it sooner, they should have our brawn backing them up?

We need to be extremely careful with interfactional communications though. If the Gaians and Angels have contact, word of our botched attempt at a pact may carry over to the other team. On a more worrying note, if the Gaians and Angels have contact, there is a huge risk that the two of them have allied, leaving us all alone against the Hive and Morgan Industries. That is the worst-case scenario, and I'd like us to figure out a contingency plan for that one as well.

[Googlie]

*Devious*:

Borrow money from Yang

Bribe Yang to attack the Gaians

Offer to pact with the Gaians and come to their aid against Yang (who we'd eventually battle with anyway)

Earn the undying gratitude of the Gaians

[Kassiopeia]

Wow. If we managed to pull that off it'd be the stuff of legends. We just need to make sure we can pull it off before doing anything stupid.

[Zeiter]

Well, we could always ally with Morgan...no, no, scratch that idea. It's far too frightening to even consider.

In case it ends up being Morgan vs. DA/Gaians vs. Spartans, then we could try allying with Zakharov, as it is likely that we'll be running knowledge later on. Or we could just keep to ourselves for a little bit, and then when the Morganites and DA/Gaian axis inevitably get into a war, we capitalize on the opportunity and invade Morgan, like I suggested in another thread.

[Skanky Burns]

Evil. I like.

[Kassiopeia]

That is, if the Angel/Gaian axis does clash first with the Morganites. The fact that they might have dollar signs in their eyes, and since we are the Spartans, I suppose the Morgans would be the primary target.

Contacting Zak would be good, if we manage to get off on a high note with him we could be able to do some serious tech trade with him.

I think allying with Morgan would be just asking for trouble. They'd benefit immensely from the trade while we'd be left with the leftovers, and we'd make for a primary target, effectively forcing a Gaian/Angel axis. However, we can't forego that possibility entirely: I and AndiD of Morgan Industries are doing pretty cozy in WWAW.

[Googlie]

Hmm - maybe we don't need to be evil

I carried on in the sim with some yang interchanges - and here's waht he did as soon as I went to the editor and gave him Dee's commlink:

[Zeiter]

Oooooh, that plan is soooo genius. I bet, if we did that, when the private forums were opened up at the end of this game, everybody's jaws would drop to the floor.

Although I have a question: When you try to get an AI to do a joint attack on an enemy, do you have to be at war with that faction or not?

Anyway, I'm for it all the way.

And don't we have to get the Gaian commlink first before we can suggest a joint attack to Yang?

Edit: Oooh, a Spartan/Yang axis, and no bribing required! That could also be another option. But then we'd have to abandon our probe raping plans for Yang.

[Googlie]

I agreed, and signed the pact, whereupon he sold me Industrial Base and Doc Loyalty ( cost me 50 ec's each) then bought Flex from me for 100, and then, after I whined, gifted me Social Psych and Secrets.