Covert Operations - General (2101 - 2124)

[Googlie]

here's the 2122 report:

No change in leadership categories from last year (so I put in a different table - one that shows us - alarmingly - as wanting militarily!!)

[Zeiter]

Which means that they could both be on the brink of getting IA and pumping out endless crawlers. I also wonder if there will be pressure in both factions to unite with each other, being the first to meet each other, so that both can feel more secure. Sort of like how the Hive and Drones fell into an alliance. From reading old posts, it seemed like most people in the Hive were rooting for a Hive/Cycon axis from the beginning. But when they met the Drones, they decided to pact with them for safety, and gradually they became more and more closely allied, which eventually meant that the Hive/Cycon dream was no more, and that the Hive and Drones would form a powerhouse alliance that would win them the game.

Now, of course, there's no coop victory in this game, so things will be a little different, but still, I wonder if a similar scenario might happen here with the Morganites and Data Angels...

[Zeiter]

The powergraph increase of the Data Angels is almost exactly indicative of a tech acquisition. Although it's odd that the Morganites didn't increase any. Maybe the Data Angels traded ECs for tech with the Morganites?

[Googlie]

What we know about the Gaians:

• 2101: founded 1st base
• 2102-2103: population stalled at 1
• 2104: founded 2nd base
• 2104-2112: population stalled at 2
• 2112: population grew to 3
• 2113: Population dropped to 2 (assumption is that a colony pod was rushed/completed)
• 2113-2115: population stalled at 2 (consistent with a CP in transit)
• 2115: Population grew to 3 (consistent with a) planting their 3rd base, or b) growing their 2nd base to size 2
• 2115 - 2119: population stalled at 3 (so if they did plant their 3rd base, pop from base 2 should have advanced to 2 by now) - so consistent with losiing that colony pod between 2115 and now
• 2120: population grew to 4 (consistent with base #1 growing a pop from 2112 to now
• 2121: pop stayed at 4
• 2122: Pop grew to 5. Changed SE choice to Planned

They have the following techs (that we know of):

Centauri Ecology
Information Networks
Planetary Networks

They have not yet met the Hive

They are last in the powerchart

[Zeiter]

Whose commlink frequency do we want more if we get an opportunity to buy one off from Yang? Morganites, or Data Angels? I would lean towards Morganites, but either one would be great.

[Googlie]

I agree.

The Angels, being mostly the old PEACE faction, will want Doc Flex for Plan Nets - which we desparately need. I'd be inclined to guard flex closely until we can see Doc Init and the MCC in our sights. So we don't really have much to trade for (outside of Plan Nets) and not much to trade with (except Doc Mobility)

Morgan (after Zak, prolly) will be the first to Ind Auto - the other prereq to Doc Init (we agree to let them try to get the PTS, if they'll let us get the MCC - then we could trade flex to them for ind auto with a "no forward trading' clause, maybe)

We could do a 25-year trade and commerce pact with them, maybe (but we can't let them get too far ahead else we'll never catch up - our weapons will soon be blunted by their armor and base defenses)

(I keep harping on about Plan Nets - getting defensive probes in bases and offensive ones out and about is the lifeblood of PBEMs generally - we don't want to be defenceless against probes and unable to infiltrate ourselves.)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
he'll sell Angels or Morgan for 25 ec's apiece:

Darn. IMO this sucks big time. I was hoping that due to our early naval ability we would be able to contact other factions earlier than everyone else, and use that for extra trading opportunities etc. Now it turns out that all one has to do is pay 25c, and one has access to other human factions. This together with the boosted starting positions (reducing unity pod value) turn this game setup rather disadvantagous for the Spartans IMO. A perfect builder's world (unless Yang turns hostile of course).

Also due to this I doubt the Morganites would be willing to give us anything in return for DocFlex, let alone IndAut. Why would they need it?
Contact other factions? No, they only have to pay 25c out of their rich treasures.
Go conquer other factions? Not their line of business.
Go probe techs from other factions? They research them, not steal them.

[Googlie]

Scenario 1:

Find Yang, and quickly take him out of the game as being our biggest military competitor

Scenario 2:

Find Yang, and Pact with him in a world-domination axis, until such time as we can take him out for sole supremacy

Scenario 3:

Find Zak and Lal and subjugate them befoe they get too strong to resist us, then deal with Yang and the 3 human factions

Scenario 4:

Morgan is our early target, before they get too strong. Utilize potential allies (such as Yang, or the other 2 human factions) as necessary, then discard when done

Scenario 5:

Assume that Morgan is the target, and go through Gaia and the Angels en-route to getting Morgan (either thru subjugation, or a temporary 3-way pact to eliminate Morgan)

Have I missed any combinations?

Debate .................................................

[Zeiter]

I think you've covered everything.

Scenario 1:
Difficulty (IMO) from 1-10: 8

Yang's perimeters really make it hard for us to invade him. Add to that the fact that he can churn out 1-2-1s and 1-3-1s like a banshee, and I don't think we could take him out with a long campaign (using artillery, probes, etc). Only after missle weapons (and perhaps needlejets) is taking out Yang through military force going to be feasible.

Scenario 2:
Difficulty: 7

Pacting with Yang wouldn't be too hard. We'd just have to run PS (which wouldn't be all that bad, as it would give us huge X2 policing power, although we'd be waving any serious research goodbye). The tricky things, though, would be:
*Keeping AI Yang as our pactmate (the AI is often erratic in its moods)
*Coordinating efforts with AI Yang (It's doubtful that we could give him any high tech weaponry that the others didn't have, because the AI doesn't know how to use defensive probes. That would diminish the effectiveness of any military help from Yang. Although we could possibly station our probes in Yang's bases to help him out).
***Actually, since the AI doesn't really know how to command its military, just scratch that whole notion of Yang helping us in our conquering at all. The most he could do to help us would be to possibly give us tech, provide us with friendly bases in which to heal, gift us hordes of units (that could actually be quite nice) and add to our intimidation factor.
So, depending on how strong AI Yang is by mid-game, I think it is unlikely that we could take on everyone else in a 3 human vs. 1 human and 1 boosted AI war.

Scenario 3:
Difficulty: 4

I think this is a great plan. Unfortunately, it entirely revolves around one contigency: Zak and Lal must be within striking distance for this to work, and we must find them soon for the plan to be effective. (Okay, two contingencies )

Scenario 4:
Difficulty: 5

I have no doubts that we could take on Morgan and his probes. For this to work though:
*Morgan must be within striking distance (<10 foil transport turns away)
*We must strike soon (before 2150).
*The other factions must not be secretly supplying arms to Morgan under the table. (We'll at least need the other's cooperative and non-interference.)
I also think this is one of the better plans. It should be feasible, and, if carried out successfully, it will be very rewarding,,and we will come out of it by far the strongest faction on the planet.

Scenario 5:
Difficulty: 8

This is sort of a modified scenario 4, except this scenario assumes aid or alliance from the others in defeating Morgan, instead of just Morganic non-cooperation. Our propaganda writers would need to do one heck of a job to pull this one off. If we don't sell the idea, then we get labeled as a threatening warmonger, and everyone teams up against us. But if we do manage to get the others on board, the going against Morgan would be much easier (although the rewards would be a little less, as we'd have to share it with our allies). The toughest part of this plan is going to be making sure that our human allies don't backstab us or team up against us when we start to rise in power above everyone.

May I propose a sixth scenario?

Scenario 6:
Difficulty: 4 -IMO

Because of the no coop victory allowed, everyone is going to be very hostile towards any perceived superpowers. Thus, this is what I would recommend:

We build up and bide our time until missle weapons and needlejets. Meanwhile, Morgan indulges on a hefty diet of ECs and grows into a behemoth. I almost guarantee you that the other factions will team up against him in less than 10 years from the time when it is apparent that Morgan is the superpower. Meanwhile, we've been steadily building up our military bit by bit. When the others declare war on Morgan, we seize the opportunity and declare war on him too, in the name of wanting to help out the Data Angels and Gaians. This way, we don't get labeled as an agressive, no good warmongering faction, as this will help us keep the Data Angels and Gaians as allies for longer. So, the Gaians and Data Angels are assaulting Morgan, but having a tough time of it. However, since our military is high morale and prepared (as we've been secretly building up), we are able to storm the Morgan rear flank, just as Morgan is busy fending off minor attacks from the Data Angels and Gaians. We then sweep through Morgan's poorly defended rear, and completely annihalate the Morganites, gaining numerous SP's, ECs, population, etc. Then, we consolidate our forces and winnings, and get ready for our next strike, using our newly-conquered bases to pour out tons of units. We do this for about 10 years, until we have a force double the size of the force we used to conquer Morgan. In the meantime, we can give subtle hints to the Data Angels and Gaians that they better appease us or else they will face the same fate as Morgan. Our faction will be extremely intimidating after our display of military power against Morgan, so we threaten the Data Angels and Gaians each separately, and gain whatever techs we can. When we are finally ready, we then lay down all of our cards, outright declare war on the Data Angels and Gaians, and mount a final invasion, 2 vs. 1, first focusing our efforts on one and perfoming a holding action against the other, then swinging around after we've dealt with the first to deal with the second.

[Googlie]

Here's what we know about Morgan (to 2123):



2101: moved their 2 colony pods

2102: founded 2 bases (so 2 pops)

2102-2112: had 2 bases and 2 population

2104: discovered first tech

2108: changed SE setting to Free Market

2113: grew population to 4

2114: population dropped to 2 (assumption is that they rushed/completed 2 colony pods

2115: population stalled at 2 (so 2 CP's still in transit)

2116: Population increases to 4 (so we assume 2 new bases founded that turn)

2116 to date: Population remains at 4

Sometime before 2122, have met Hive or acquired Yang's commlink #

2123 sumary: 4 bases with 4 population

[Googlie]

here's what we know about the Angels:



2101: simultaneous founding of 2 bases (so population is 2)

2102 - 2111 population stagnant at 2

2112: population grows to 4

2113-2114; pop remains at 4

2115: population drops to 3, so we assume a colony pod built

2116: pop grows to 4, so we assume a 3rd base founded (closelu spaced as per the first 2)

2117: pop drops to 3, so assumption is another CP is commissioned)

2118: no change (CP in transit)

2119: pop grows to 4 again, so 4th base is founded

2120: population grows to 5

2123 population still at 5

sometime before 2122, Angels met Hive or acquired Yang's commlink


2123 Summary: 4 bases with 5 population

[Googlie]

from 2122 to 2123, our military might deteriorated from wanting to feeble (second lowest rating)

Also, Yang has leapfrogged Zak as the strongest militarily

here's the scan and powerbar chart

[Googlie]

dp

[Zeiter]

The Gaians also seem to be catching up a bit. My guess is that they now have 4 techs. Also, it looks like the Data Angels and Morgan did swap techs, as Morgan's little boost indicates.

The Hive's power is . I think we can rule out any invasions in that direction any time soon.

[Dis]

attacking the Hive seems folly. They have applied physics, a very large military, and very high power ranking.

If only there was some weakling close to use

and Gaians running planned! WTF!