Game Discussion, Turn 2101 - 2120

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
So we found Fort Westcrater next turn on 55:17? (to retain the ability to build 4 crater bases) Set production to a rover scout (see below)

No sorry, I just meant that it had moved to that tile. AFAIK Zeiter and also me would still prefer to found a base on (51.17). That way we can build more bases in the crater while still having the nutrient resource in the base radius.

Btw, do you mean set production to a rover scout or a rover former (for pod popping)?

If you mean a scout rover, do we still need any rovers for exploration? After all, we've got two rovers going south, and a third soon exploring the remaining NE corner (most likely) of our peninsula. So if we want to continue exploring and pod popping, the ocean seems the way to go.

Of course we still need military units for garrison duty.

But for our first Crater base, if we don't get a materials pod, how about we build an infantry former? That could plant a forest on the nut bonus for a great 3-2-2 tile, and start building roads and farms in the crater.

Next turn move SW to 50:14 (opens up that last black tile) then south on to the river/nut tile, ready turn after to move downriver and pop the pod in the fungus in the new base radius at 54:18 (having changed Westcrater's production to a rover former just before - if not a completion, we can change back without the minerals penalty)

Do the same thing at Sparta Command (change to a rover former) and pop that pod with Chiron Knights and flip back to a regiular former if unsuccessful

(btw - why no Colony pod at SC1. We pop 2 there in 6 and a pod would complete in 7 turns (with the extra pop working) versus a former first then a pod (prolly 12 turns in total, once the second pop worker is factored in) Sure we can rush, but it's almost better wasting that 1 mineral next turn to change (assuming no good podpop) than spending the hard earned ec's to rush more than a couple of turnsworth)

CP or former are both fine with me.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Andemagne
since I can't give up, I have something to add to the former issue. what about upkeep costs? what about fast road construction to new/conquered areas?

I've done some tests - just comparing how fast one speeder former or two infantry formers could complete a certain task. The only task speeder formers can do as fast as two infantry formers is building roads on completely flat terrain. For all other tasks infantry formers soon take the lead. This means the extra mineral upkeep would soon be paid back. Also there's the issue that while in a scenario A a base would still be eleven turns away from building a rover former (presuming a mineral production of 3 as in our current bases), in scenario B the base would already have completed an infantry former sooner. That former could plant eg two forests already while the rover former is already under production. That turn advantage alone already pays back the extra upkeep costs of the second former when it becomes operational.

But anyway, currently we're using the tactic suggested to temporarily change production to speeder formers when we have a shot at a materials pod, so with some luck, we should get a speeder former in the near future that can build roads all over the place as you suggest. Then other infantry formers we possibly will build in the future could handle all the other terraformation works.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac

No sorry, I just meant that it had moved to that tile. AFAIK Zeiter and also me would still prefer to found a base on (51.17). That way we can build more bases in the crater while still having the nutrient resource in the base radius.

Yes, I know (the right hand picture you posted on 14th of the 4 bases in the crater) - I came round to that layout as well. But I'm suggesting the first crater base where it is right now (57:17), with a subsequent base at 51:17

The question I was raising was would we build the next base where it is now (I erroneously named it Westcrater - it'd actually be Eastcrater where it is. Westcrater would be on 57:17, to use that nut tile). I'd wager that one of the 2 pods that would be in the new base radius, if founded where it is right now, would be a nut special, so we'd gain turn advantage by building now(2117) and popping, rather than moving thru 3 river tiles then founding in 2118

Btw, do you mean set production to a rover scout or a rover former (for pod popping)?

I meant rover former. To avoid misunderstanding, I''ll refer to them as speeder formers from now on - that's what the workshop labels them when you put it together

If you mean a scout rover, do we still need any rovers for exploration? After all, we've got two rovers going south, and a third soon exploring the remaining NE corner (most likely) of our peninsula. So if we want to continue exploring and pod popping, the ocean seems the way to go.

I agree. Foils (that will, hopefully, pop trannies from time to time) are our future.

Of course we still need military units for garrison duty.

Agreed. Trance synth or plasma defenders would be cool!! (but we're a good few techs away from them. Some 1-1-1's might be as good as we get for fifteen or twenty turns)

But for our first Crater base, if we don't get a materials pod, how about we build an infantry former? That could plant a forest on the nut bonus for a great 3-2-2 tile, and start building roads and farms in the crater.

I'd go along with that.

[Zeiter]

I wonder, would it be better to plant a forest on the nut for a 3-2-2 tile, or a farm for a 4-1-1? I personally would be tempted to go for the second option for the pure growth potential, but that's just me (lately I've been a total demo/planned junkie.)

But the forest has 2 advantages:

1. extra mins and energy
2. could spread to other areas

So, I guess I'd go with the forest after all.

As far as planting the CP right where it is now and hoping for a nut bonus: I'm open to the idea. Could anyone calculate the probability of getting at least 1 nut bonus from those 3 pods? If the pods are in the base radius, then that rules out any negative pops. So it could be:

A monolith
A unity rover
A unity scout chopper
A completion pod
A mineral resource
An energy resource
Energy credits
commlink
tech
river
forest pod
robot agricultural pod
robot solar collector pod
robot mine pod
survey pod
AA
nutrient bonus

I don't know...there are a lot of possibilities. I calculate a 3/17 chance of one of the pods having a nut bonus. I don't know if those are good odds. I would play it safe and plant the CP in the crater west location.

[Googlie]

Prima's Guide says:"

"In normal, non-fungus, non-sea aquares, the "discover resources" event is as likely as all other events combined (ie, about 50% of pods will be resources), but a "discover resource" pod has a 50% chance of porducing one of the other results as well" (ie - a "double goody" such as a nut bonus plus a Unity Rover - - or maybe a mineral bonus plus a mindworm - )

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Zeiter
I wonder, would it be better to plant a forest on the nut for a 3-2-2 tile, or a farm for a 4-1-1? I personally would be tempted to go for the second option for the pure growth potential, but that's just me (lately I've been a total demo/planned junkie.)

We could always plant a forest now, and around when we plan to start popbooming, cultivate a farm over it. Then that extra nutrient could translate in an extra 1-2-1 forest worker.

***

I already played part of the turn. Here's a midturn report:

Battle Report MY 2117

Midturn results:

• R-112 CRV moved one tile SW. Fungal Tower discovered! Attack it or not? It's 3.75 against 2.62. Our odds per hitpoint-battle are 10 to 7. Victory seems likely, so we could get some credits. On the other side, leaving the fungal tower stand, would create a fungal barrier completely from the west to the east coast (after the tower caused a fungal bloom east of its location). That could be a good or a bad thing though, depending on whether we want to attack Yang, or have the best possible defence position against him (look at his powergraph ).
• The Chiron Knights. I changed production in SC1 to a speeder former, but to no avail. The first pod was once again a nutrient resource far far from our territory. Then I saw a second pod immediately west of the previous pod location. Because there was no other fungus-free tile to move to, I decided to pop it for a change, despite that it was the rover's last move. And bad luck, this time I popped a mind worm. Fortunately it's a rover, so it should be able to flee when attacked. ) It's about time we get some good pods again.
• Energy allocations changed to 50-0-50 for this turn, to prevent loss of a labs point when tech is researched.
• Things not yet done: move the CP and Rolling Thunder. Also, should I change SC1 production?

2117 midturn

Please see the attached screenshot for the worms.

Btw, re the idea for planting the base on (55.17).
Good idea, but just like Zeiter I fear the chance for a nutrient bonus could be too low.

For the pod on the north of the Crater, even if we would pop a nutrient, it would still produce one energy less than the nutrient bonus on the NW-side of the crater. So the turn advantage of founding the base one turn earlier would be reduced partially or even completely.

For the pod within the crater. That pod is on fungus, and I can't immediately remember ever getting a nutrient bonus on a fungus tile. This seems confirmed by what the Prima Guide writes:
"In normal, non-fungus, non-sea aquares"
So we are pretty certain NOT to get a nutrient bonus there.

[Snoddasmannen]

My vote, for what it's worth, is to kill that strange blobby thing. I'm not sure what they do exactly (never having played Alien Crossfire) but if it's going to obstruct our attack route towards Yang then I don't like it ... And anyway we could use the money.

[Zeiter]

Yeah, I'd go ahead and attack the fungal tower.

As for the other rover being able to disengage: I don't even think it'll have to do that. Doesn't native life attack at 30% strength for the first 30 turns or something? So our rover should win anyway, and could possibly get a morale boost.

So, next turn we found the Crater West base? Goody!

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
My vote, for what it's worth, is to kill that strange blobby thing.

Here's how they look when fullgrown.

I'm not sure what they do exactly (never having played Alien Crossfire)

They're units without any movement points, meaning they always stay on the same place. They get a +50% battle bonus, in addition to their lifecycle bonus. This means they're difficult to kill even for the most hardened empath troops. We've had some luck here to encounter them in such an early stage, and of course because we have a veteran rover.

Besides standing in everyone's way, they also from time to time cause fungal blooms in the eight squares surrounding the tower. This is rather nasty if you're trying to terraform the area around a tower. Their lifecycle (native morale) is determined by the # of surrounding fungus squares by the way: the more fungal squares, the higher the lifecycle bonus.

Besides being randomly seeded at the start of the game, new ones can also appear when due to ecological damage you're causing lots of fungal blooms. Rather annoying when you suddenly get one in the middle of your territory.

The manual for SMAX claims they spawn native units from time to time, but unfortunately that feature doesn't seem to work. It could be fun in a game to face mind worm attacks coming from fungal towers once in a while.

Originally posted by Zeiter
As for the other rover being able to disengage: I don't even think it'll have to do that. Doesn't native life attack at 30% strength for the first 30 turns or something?

Alas, IIRC that's only the first fifteen turns.

***

Btw, I've played a bit further:
[*]R-112 CRV attacked the Fungal Tower and won, completely unharmed! We got 20 credits worth of planet pearls. No morale boost though.[*]Not having heard from Googlie anymore the last half day and seeing that Zeiter would like to stick to the old plan, I moved the CP and rover according to the original plan. I hope I'm not playing too fast here. [/list]
midturn

Now we have flamed the fungal tower, we have an extra cash reserve of 20c, bringing us to 28 credits. Meaning we have the opportunity to hurry something.

If we want, we can choose between:

The gun skimship in Gythium Harbour. 15 credits would suffice.

The former in Sparta Command. 18 credits. Unless there's confirmation to change that production to a CP of course. (?)

Or we could wait until next year and then hurry a former in the western crater base (Ironholm?). That would probably cost 23 credits.

So what does everyone think we should do?

[Zeiter]

I vote for hurrying the gunship. The earlier we contact the others, the better the chance of us being able to play tech broker or gaining EC's for comm frequencies. Plus, we'll have 1 more unit that can pop pods.

I would also try to hurry the last 6 mins or so of the former that we'll probably build at the Crater West base. Would we have enough $$$ for both of these things?

Edit: R-112 CRV survived without a scratch? Hehehe, those are my boys.

I would actually prefer Sparta Command to produce a CP instead of a former, but it looks like we would lose 1 min due to retooling. I'm okay with that, but what do others think?

[Googlie]

I'd vote to hurry the foil as well

[Kassiopeia]

Can we contact an AI player if our foil encounters a base or a land unit of theirs?

[Googlie]

yes

[Googlie]

Sorry for the short answers (and inaccessability) - I was at a friend's for the day and just got on to the internet after his kids went to bed - but now I'm home (albeit late)

I'd rush the gunfoil, then wait till the next base is founded and put a former in production and rush it to completion

Originally posted by Maniac
Alas, IIRC that's only the first fifteen turns.

Correct - it's 75/DIFF (so where we are playing Transcend level - diff 5 - that's 15 years)

Originally posted by Maniac
For the pod within the crater. That pod is on fungus, and I can't immediately remember ever getting a nutrient bonus on a fungus tile. This seems confirmed by what the Prima Guide writes:
"In normal, non-fungus, non-sea aquares"
So we are pretty certain NOT to get a nutrient bonus there

That's prolly true. About the only goodie that seems to come from a fungus pod is a monolith. But a mindworm is more likely

[Kassiopeia]

Sorry for the short answers (and inaccessability)

Short and to the point, the Spartan way. In any case, I agree that rushing the foil would be best.