Drone Negotiations

[Kody]

Can you post that comment in their forum too.

Kody

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Kody
Also I assumed that the only editing that you wanted was changing of caluse 2.1. I changed that to what you wanted so I didn't think you would have a problem with the document.

Yes I'm fine with the document myself.

When I noticed the majority, I asked for guidance from the chairman and he said I would be allowed to send the update.

Kody

That is good to hear. With both Chairman and I being ok with the document it's ceretainly got the approval of the CCC. In fact if the Chairman has verified something, consider it approved by CCC.

[Snowflake]

Good work Kody! Hopefully before long I will be able to retreat to the remote HongHu KongHu base as approved by the Chairman. Nice working with you on this matter and I hope you didn't find my deliberately being the devil's advocate to be too disturbing.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kody
Can you post that comment in their forum too.

Done

[Kody]

Googlie has set up a private forum page for Drone/Hive negotiations. I would like to thank Googlie for his efforts.

I set up a forums page for your factions to use if you want.

the URL is:

http://www.voy.com/154401/1.html

and the password is:

*******

Let me know if you think it will serve any purpose, and if so, I'll leave
it to you to publicize it in your private forums. If not, I'll delete it

Googlie

I have given the password to the chairman. Check your private messages Voltiare.

I'm going to leave it up to the chairman to decide whether access will be given. My suggestion is giving the password to only the PAC members for the present time. I think there are a few other members that are calling for war and appear to be ignoring the information posts. It would be unfortunate if these people decided to make the decisions for the rest of the Hive with a few well placed insults.

The voy.com is less advanced than apolyton or civgaming and numerous messages will quickly make the forum hard to navigate. So I'm going to ask that if your post is directed at a hive member, post it in our private forums rather in the voy.com forum.

Kody

[Kody]

Mark13 was noted scouting around apolyton for the first time in a long time. Buster is still nowhere to be seen yet. It looks like we have to wait a bit longer before any decisions can be made.

Kody

[Kody]

Buster has been sighted in civgaming forums.

Kody

[Kody]

And the waiting continues......

Kody

[Kody]

buster wrote on 22-07-2003 21:07:
There are some discusdsions on details.

Generally there is consensus a pact is desireable but whether to make a full to end shared victory agreement or just a normal pact is still not fully resolved.

I expect to have it sorted out some time later today so arrangements can be made already on next turn.

regards
buster

Kody wrote on Tuesday, 22nd July 2003 12:17:18:
Hello Buster,

Any word on what's happening at your end of the table?

Kody

Thanks for the information.

Kody

[Snowflake]

Thanks for the information, Kody.

I have to remind myself not to get too excited yet since we still don't have the final answer.

[Vev]

I have been pretty relaxed myself.

[Kody]

Email

Mongoose,

I have been talking to Chairman Voltiare, and we both agree that the Pirates and CyCon have decided to Pact. While we are not completely sure, it would seem the rumors have reached us from independant sources.

These rumors seem to have been confirmed in the information available from the game. The pirates and the CyCon seem to now have the largest populations of the human players (look at votes) and are the most powerful on the power graph.

The univeristy appears to only have 3 bases as their population has shrunken from 6 down to three. It is assumed they currently have three colony pods on the move.

You may wish to take these facts into consideration while making your decision.

Also the chairman has specifically asked that you make a decision soon. While we understand the problems with vactions hindering your deliberations. The majority of the hive feels that further delays are unjustified.

After the inital pact has been completed there are still many other issues that need to be ironed out and some of these issues have already cost our factions turn advantage. For example the additional energy generated by commerce that both our factions can benifit from. Also it is now impossible to get Industrial Automation in 2125. However, it is still possible to obtain it in 2126.

Kody

[Kody]

Email
Kody,

Your conclusions regarding Pirates/CyCon are interesting, to be sure. Can
you offer any reasons for coming to that conclusion? All I can tell is that
neither of them has contact with either of us and that neither of them has
started sown the Industrial path as yet.

Your 'majority' that thinks that further delays are unjustified is
completely out of order. You ask us to make an unbreakable commitment. We
will give (and are giving) the question serious consideration, commensurate
with the gravity of the decision. You ought to be reassured that we do not
lightly enter into this arrangement.

Kindly remind Chairman Voltaire that he does NOT lead the Free Drones.

I believe, and have posted in our forum to the effect that our last turn was
taken too quickly. Buster played it immediately upon his return without
full consultation with me concerning ongoing negotiations between you and
us.

However, it is YOUR insistence that the research issue must be tied to the
Pact issue that has caused the loss of whatever turn advantage we have lost.
(I do not believe we have lost anything as yet, other than a couple of ec on
our end. With no commerce techs and -1 ECONOMY, you will likely get no
commerce at the beginning of the Pact.) With radically unbalanced energy
allocation, we should still be able to complete our discovery in 2124. We
will have no problem making that discovery in 2125.

I will not post this letter in our forum. I think it might be seen as an
attempt to rush our deliberations, with unpleasant consequences on the
outcome of them.

I copy this letter and yours instant to Buster so that he can keep abreast
of these negotiations.

Regards,

[Kody]

Email

> Kody,
>
> Your conclusions regarding Pirates/CyCon are interesting, to be sure. Can
> you offer any reasons for coming to that conclusion? All I can tell is that
> neither of them has contact with either of us and that neither of them has
> started sown the Industrial path as yet.
>
The Univeristy was originally in the lead on the power graph. Suddenly the
Pirates and CyCon overtake and Drogue is listed as first in tech.
Obviously this indicates that some tech trading as occurred. This lead me
to trawl through the message boards and this lead to look closely at the
posts before and after this thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2084861#post2084861

This interchange occurred around the time of the power graph jump. It
suggests the suspicion that the two factions were in contact is correct as
there was no outrage over pre-contact communications. Shortly after this
the pirates and CyCon completely stopped talking to each other. That
suggests they.re hiding an alliance of some kind as that would be what I
would suggest to my faction in the same circumstances. Also if I was in
either of the others shoes my first reaction would be to pact as the CyCon
can provide the pirates with tech and the pirates can provide sea safety.

All this was unconfirmed suspicion. However, the chairman mentioned that
there have also been hints of a CyCon and Pirate pact in conversations
with friends that are in other factions. It is hardly a conclusive case,
but enough that these concerns have been factored into the Hive planning.

The CyCon and Pirates may not have a full research pact. We know the CyCon
are running Planned and both CyCon and Pirates have information networks.

> Your 'majority' that thinks that further delays are unjustified is
> completely out of order. You ask us to make an unbreakable commitment. We
> will give (and are giving) the question serious consideration, commensurate
> with the gravity of the decision. You ought to be reassured that we do not
> lightly enter into this arrangement.
>

I apologise for our disrespect. However, you must realise the hive has
been waiting a few weeks now, and we mistakenly held our breath during
that time.

I confess the current feeling about these negotiations that I personally
have is of sitting down for a test then getting a 2 hour perusal. Can you
imagine having figured out a number of answers in your head, but not
getting the go ahead to write anything down because the test hasn't really
started. To make things worse you walked in expecting a 10 minute perusal
and after the first hour wondered what on earth is going on.

Your protests are valid and will be passed on to the rest of the Hive. We
will continue to wait, although we really want to get started.

> Kindly remind Chairman Voltaire that he does NOT lead the Free Drones.
>

Indeed Chairman Voltaire does not lead the drones, but he leads the Hive
and it is the concerns of his people that motivated him to make that
request. It is hoped that the Hive and Drones will be equal partners and
there is no intention of decisions forced on the Drones.

> I believe, and have posted in our forum to the effect that our last turn was
> taken too quickly. Buster played it immediately upon his return without
> full consultation with me concerning ongoing negotiations between you and
> us.
>

That indeed caused me concern as I wondered if the pact was even an issue.
Although holding the turn would have admittedly done little good due to
the 48 hour limit. I was mistakenly believed that you would have been
ready within 24 hours of Buster coming back.

It would be helpful if you could give the Hive some timeframe with which
to work with. The timeframes that the Hive keeps coming up with have been
4 times wrong. Indeed you wouldn't have been getting these persistent
emails if we knew when to expect your reply.

> However, it is YOUR insistence that the research issue must be tied to the
> Pact issue that has caused the loss of whatever turn advantage we have lost.
> (I do not believe we have lost anything as yet, other than a couple of ec on
> our end. With no commerce techs and -1 ECONOMY, you will likely get no
> commerce at the beginning of the Pact.) With radically unbalanced energy
> allocation, we should still be able to complete our discovery in 2124. We
> will have no problem making that discovery in 2125.
>

The polls that were conducted in the hive refused to give the Drones
"Applied" unless the drones are pacted. We can trade information networks
with you, but without "Applied" you wouldn't be able to choose "planetary
networks". So the research issue was impossible to resolve without the
pact.

The hive was considering using radically unbalanced energy allocations to
complete IA discovery in 2125. However, it is currently too late to
instigate the changes.

My data was from replicating the hive cities in the scenario editor and
taking a guess at what the Drones have. With no commerce techs there was
no extra energy. However with Industrial Economics traded the hive managed
to obtain one extra energy and one more lab assuming that you have two
bases that are size two or more, or you were using an energy resource.
With the earlier discovery of PN and IA two hive bases grew a turn earlier
and one base produced colony pods a turn earlier.
(Okay so I have too much free time on my hands...)

> I will not post this letter in our forum. I think it might be seen as an
> attempt to rush our deliberations, with unpleasant consequences on the
> outcome of them.
>

I understand that you do not wish to ruin our negotiations by posting a
misunderstanding. I will being posting this to the Hive forums as it
addresses some of the concerns of the Hive members. The others are
looking for some indication that the negotiations are still continuing
and that some attempt was made to prompt you for a decision. I admit it
was my fault for claiming a week ago that everyone should be patient as
the drones will probably make a decision as soon as Buster comes back on
the 20th.

> I copy this letter and yours instant to Buster so that he can keep abreast
> of these negotiations.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mongoose
>
>
>

Kody

[Snowflake]

Looks to me this email is a rather prudent answer to the Drone's comments. I had a little doubt with regard to the previous email indicating that we were pretty sure about the pact bt CC and PEACE. I think it should be ok if Comrade Kody presented it as his personal suspicion but it might bring suspicion to us if we present it as a knowledge of the faction since it will bring questions regarding how that information was obtained and such and Moongoose is right that it may actually hinder the chance of a pact between us if the Hive's integrity was challenged.

It remains my opinion that we should hold our horse and wait for the Drone's answer. By holding the horse I don't mean we shouldn't continue discussion inside our private forum, but until we hear from them we should try not to send the Drone's more emails unless absolutely necessary. In the mean time, we simply should be prepared for all possibilities.