Drone Negotiations

[Kody]

Okay I understand.

The drones are probably afraid of an early war, while the hive is afraid of a late game war. Well actually the hive is only really afraid of late game backstabbing, and is concerned about a late game war.

Kody

[Kody]

http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3271&highlight=buster

Buster made a short appearance on the civ gaming boards.
I wonder if he managed to visit the apolyton boards.

Kody

[Snowflake]

I don't understand. They are afraid of us for now? I wouldn't guess so. We are the last in the power graph afterall. Although their scout may find that he is surrounded with quite a few of our army

I still don't understand. If they are afraid of an early war with us, why would this take them longer to make a decision? I guess maybe they don't really want to pact with us but was afraid if they say so they'll be attacked? Is that it?

Anyway, if they want a pact I guess I agree with the majority go for the h**k of it, just be prepared I guess.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by HongHu
I don't understand. They are afraid of us for now? I wouldn't guess so.

Googlie Disclaimer:

OK - what follows bears no relation to what the Drones might actually be discussing, but here's what I'd be adding to the discussion if I were participating ... (but of course, I'm not):

***************************************

> You are one tech away from Impact weapons (you have both Info Nets and Applied Physics). Who on Earth makes Applied Physics one of their first five techs to discover unless they are on a momentum, warlike, impact weapons track?

> You are last in population, even with your Hive +1 growth advantage, so what the heck have you been building if not Colony Pods - just how many laser units are there roaming around your landmass?

> you have indicated that Doc Mobility and Doc Flex are high on your research list (together with Ind Auto). That portends Impact Rovers, the strongest unit and potential gamebreaker before noodles and choppers

> Every base you build comes equipped with a preformed Perimeter Defense

> You had no hesitation in sharing a portion of your map - showing the Sunny Mesa - only a faction somewhat arrogant in its strength would reveal so much so early

*****************************

Do you still think the Hive shouldn't be feared this early in the game?

G.

[Vev]

Of course all will be revealed once we pacted. The Hive have made a few mistakes, and our base placement wasn't that spectacular. Also our terrain is quite dry, save for the valley. After from sunny mesa and a huge mountain, (both of which their only speciality is that they are high) the Hive does not really have special terrain such as Moonsoon Jungle, Uranium Flats, Garland Crater, The Ruins, Pholus Range, Borehole Cluster, Manifold Nexus, Mount Planet and Unity Crash site.

[Snowflake]

In other words, from the unknow lies the fear. Once we pact and map exchanged, wow, what a big surprise that the Hive is not as fearful. Let's backstab! Is this a possible course?

[Vev]

That I guess why the Hive is afraid of backstab, that they may realise we are not doing as well as they thought.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Vev
....a huge mountain, (..... of which their only speciality is that they are high)

Harrumph (**Offended**)

That mountain has 7 tiles at the 3500 meter level, four of which have river sources running thru, one of which is an energy special. It's twice as effective as Mount Planet.

It took some time to set it that way, as when I added a new river source it diverted the others - maybe five attempts to get it right, IIRC

It's gonna be an awesome Energy Park

And the river bordering the Sunny Mesa wasn't random either.

I don't just plonk factions' colony pods on any old land, you know ...........

harrumph again

G.

[Vev]

Okay, I admit putting rivers down is a pain and juggling with terrain height is a pain too as it affects moisture and rivers. We do have a cool energy park site, just that it will be a bit dry for the moment.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by HongHu
In other words, from the unknown lies the fear. ........... Let's backstab! Is this a possible course?

i don't think it's so much the unknown as the presumed

And, of course, backstabbing is a legitimate tactic in PBEMs of all sorts. But as I said somewhere else. the active PBEMers in this game are jealous of their reputations. I think the "let's pact, infiltrate then nuke them" crowd have no reputation to worry about in the forums 'cos they aren't very active PBEMers.


Buster, Mark. Mongoose and SL3 are all active PBEMers and I'd be surprised to see them "backstab". They'll obviously try to extract the best possible deal for the Drones in any negotiations, and they'll expect the Hive to do the same.

Just don't assume that they hold all the cards

G.

[Kody]

They'll obviously try to extract the best possible deal for the Drones in any negotiations.

I hope they don't try to test my patience. What looked like hive arrogance was actually my goodwill. They will get a fair deal unless I get pressured otherwise by my superiors, or they decide to pressure me too much.

If they vote for a pact, the following will occur.

* We decide if we want to pact.

* Ask if the drones can arrange a inter-faction forum. To faciliate long term relations.

* We decide once and for all the loyalty and honour of the hive. Will we be willing to stick with our pact mates through thick and thin. If we decide that the answer is yes, we place it into our Constitution and Laws that we don't break our promises to pact mates.

* I write details for the permanent pact. I will write a long list detailing the terms of the pact. How joint-faction decisions will be made, conditions of the pact, (Eg they cannot place bases on our grounds, we cannot be pressured into war against the cycon unless it's our own choosing)

* The permanent pact is approved by the Hive.

* This permanent pact is proposed to the drones. Negoitations will occur about the pact.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the conditions I'm considering for the pact.

Conditions
- Inter-factions issues are determined by (hive percentage vote * 0.5) + (drone percentage vote * 0.5). Our factions get equal say in inter-faction issues. Minimum of 4 votes in each faction's poll. See Joint faction Behaviour section for issues that can be determined by this.
- Drones are not allowed to colonise the hive's main continent, or make use of the continent for crawler or city purposes.
- Hive is not allowed to colonise drones continent, or make use of drone terriority for crawler or city purposes.
- Both factions can get any tech from at any time from the other faction. (full tech sharing)
- One ambassdor from each faction is allowed into the other faction's forums to monitor affairs for duplicity. The ambassdor goes under a different username to avoid other factions finding out about our pact.
- Mounting attacks are determined independantly by each faction.
- Units in the other faction's territory must be withdrawn if requested.
- If war is decided and forces one faction to break a pact, blood truce or treaty. The faction must be allowed honorable conduct. The faction has the option of warning the enemy of the change in alliance and can then wait 10 years before ending it. Although if the other faction wishes it can begin its war straight away.

Seperate faction vote, and both factions must agree.
- The inital terms of the pact cannot be changed, unless there is a minimum of 70% agreement from both factions. Minimum of 4 members per faction voting in each poll.
- Raising land to connect the two continents requires seperate approval from both factions. The pre-land raising borders continue to hold in the agreement of terriority.
- Spoils of war are negotiated by the both factions.
- Further joint faction behaviour can be added when both factions agree to add it.

Joint faction behaviour.
- Another faction attacking either drones or hive is automatic war for both.
- Enemies of one faction are treated as enemies of the other faction. To declare war joint voting is required. This is may be an unoffical agreement for war.
- To end a war joint voting is required.

Concessions
- If the drones have 75% or less land on their main continent compared to the hive. They can get hive military assistance and plan a joint invasion to get land from another faction. The land in the campagin belongs to the drones until the drones are equal in terrority to the inital hive continent. After which the splitting must be negotiated. The minimum amount of military the hive is required to use for assistance is proportional to half of the attack of the drone force amassed for the war.
- The hive is able to veto the joint dipolmatic stance towards the CyCon. Unless the CyCon are actively at war with the drones.

Expected behaviour
- Both drones and hive should send reinforcements in the event of an invasion of the home continent.
- Research should be pursued together.

Kody

[Kody]

You know if we show that we trust them and help the drones whenever we can, do you think they will still want to take us out? Generally only scum would turn on friends.

By the way....

Who on Earth makes Applied Physics one of their first five techs to discover unless they are on a momentum, warlike, impact weapons track?

Why the heck did we choose applied physics?

Kody

[Snowflake]

The Kody Pact seems pretty comprehensive to me. I would hope people who are more familiar than me in PBEMs would comment on that. And GooglieGod, would you be able to give us your valuable insight about how does it compare to what is normally done?

I have a couple questions. First if somebody attacks drones and Hive automatically say war against it, would it reveal that we are pact factions? Or do we wait until we contact the enemy then declare war? Second the ambassadar issue, would it be considered as DL and forbidden in Poly?

I'm now support pact if we can get, based on GooglieGod's evaluation on Drone's reputation.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kody
Why the heck did we choose applied physics?

'Cos you were fast tracking to Impact weapons (I remember the discussions)

G.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Kody

Why the heck did we choose applied physics?

Kody

This was questioned at the time too. I think the answer is we couldn't choose two white tech back to back so we had to choose something else and we chose AP for defensive reasons.