Hive call to Planetary Government for CPU-PEACE ceasefire!

[Drogue]

Have replied. Added bits as they came to me. Trying to show why the council isn't even allowed to be legitimate on this, which it isn't.

[Skanky Burns]

If war is illegal, the Hive in pursuing their Vendetta against the Angels would have broken it. If declaring war is illegal, then the Drones, in declaring Vendetta upon PUT, would have broken it before. However it is not illegal.

We should attack them on this part too. If we are forced to stop a war, then they too should stand trial over their wars. And since their war started before ours, they should stand trial first so as to set a precedent.

[Drogue]

Ok. I have had a long and relatively fruitful chat with Voltaire over MSN, chaired by Tass. Basically we've reached an impass. The Hive is threatened but the CPU. They feel we upset the balance, of Drones, Hive and us, and feel that we're getting too powerful, especially if we finish of PEACE. They feel we are militaristic and wish to destroy the Hive. I tried to alay his fears, to some success, but many inside the Hive do not trust us. I pointed out for safety that resigning the pact would be sensible, and while received well, it won't get passed the rest of the Hive.

The Hive does care about PEACE, but to a limited extent. They care about us getting too powerful, and are prepared to go to any lengths to stop that. I pointed out that a war between the two of us would be long and draining, and that the Drones would gain a lot. That was accepted. The Hive wants a ceasefire and us to enter talks. I agreed to the talks, but said unless we were offered an agreement that benefited us, we couldn't agree to a ceasefire yet. This is the impass. The Hive will go to 'any lengths' to stop us completely killing PEACE. And we wont agree to a ceasefire without a reason. Hence, at the time, war seemed inevitable. I have a couple of things that might help. Suppose we offered to stop and let the Hive take their last base[s]? Or to split original PEACE territory (with us having the lions share of course)?

Voltaire also mentioned his concern about CPU attitudes to the Hive. I tried to alay those fears, as I am positive, but he didn't really buy it. He said a lot of this tension has come from Hive feelings that some CPU members are anti-Hive. This may be true, in fact, I'm pretty sure it is. He knows from Maniac's posts that he is not pro-Hive, and so is scared that with him being Prime Function we are likely to go to war against the Hive. I used his logical of showing why it would be illogical of us to do that, and that as Prime Function he cannot decide on his own, and that helped greatly.

In short the problem is thus:
If we take all of PEACEs bases, the Hive feels that we're too powerful, too militaristic, and is scared. War may well ensue. However we wish to exterminate PEACE, for in and out of game reasons, such a turntime and fun. This is the impass. One side has to give. Neither have yet, although we're coming closer to the middle.

The good news is, the Drones and Hive are not as stable as they once were. The Drones have not publicly supported the Hive motion, dispite the Hive trying to get them to. There is a chance to be kingmaker here. I talks of alliances to Voltaire. An alliance with the Hive, to alay all our fears and go co-op victory, he found interesting. It would be great, but a long shot. Maybe ask the Drones? We sign a Pact with them, and vote for their supreme leadership, hence a co-op? Either way, it's a chance. My personal opinion: War would not be good, but I will not support any course of action that leaves PEACE in place.

[GeneralTacticus]

For those who don't already know: the motion has passed.

[Mart]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
For those who don't already know: the motion has passed.

so what are actual consequences of that?

[GeneralTacticus]

Probably none; we had no friends in the other factions anyway, and our enemies aren't going to be made more so as a result.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by mart7x5
so what are actual consequences of that?

Well, members of the council will be able to claim that any action taken against CyCon to enforce this motion will be backed by the council.

I think I pulled that off quite well

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Well, members of the council will be able to claim that any action taken against CyCon to enforce this motion will be backed by the council.

I think I pulled that off quite well

Tass, I have a question here. IF CPU takes PEACE out of the game, what happens then to that PEACE vote?

I mean, in your ruling now about the legitimacy of the council, they have a vote, but if we destroy them, is their council vote then still valid for future council votings like this ceasefire topic which recently came up?

[GeoModder]

ACE

Originally posted by Drogue
I tried to alay his fears, to some success, but many inside the Hive do not trust us. I pointed out for safety that resigning the pact would be sensible, and while received well, it won't get passed the rest of the Hive.

Yes, that shows if they were willing to end our pact a few years ago. But about your last sentence, did you sugggest a pact breaking between Hive-Drones?

Originally posted by Drogue
I have a couple of things that might help. Suppose we offered to stop and let the Hive take their last base[s]? Or to split original PEACE territory (with us having the lions share of course)?

I'm in favour of the latter proposal. Since most of our members want PEACE finished, I think it's better that we do the job (Hive taking PEACE's last bases would do harm to their diplo rating anyway). But we can propose that they get Yard... Long island for colonisation, and that we disband all bases in the vicinity (Calico and Crossbone). With disband I mean that we quickbuild a colony -and seacolonypod in those two bases just before they grow to 2 citizens. If that is not enough for them, I propose to give them control over 1 or 2 colony pods when Hive founds a base on Yard... Long island.

Btw, I write this in the presumption that bases can't be transfered to other human players in a MP game.

Originally posted by Drogue
Voltaire also mentioned his concern about CPU attitudes to the Hive. I tried to alay those fears, as I am positive, but he didn't really buy it. He said a lot of this tension has come from Hive feelings that some CPU members are anti-Hive. This may be true, in fact, I'm pretty sure it is.

The voting about whether or not going to war with Hive was with a big majority in favour of not doing so. I like to think that sets the trend within our faction.

Originally posted by Drogue
The good news is, the Drones and Hive are not as stable as they once were. The Drones have not publicly supported the Hive motion, dispite the Hive trying to get them to. There is a chance to be kingmaker here.

Either way, it is us agreeing with the prime position of one of those factions, and it means a long and dreadfull war against at least 1 AI faction and 1 human faction. Not to mention that in each case we have to take the brunt of it because of our distance from the AI factions.

I can't see Angels agreeing to supreme leader victory of Hive, and Believers to the same for Drones.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Finally! Some real diplomacy instead of just public postings! If you think it will help the Hive;s overall feeling of us, Drogue, I could contact the Hive and generally banter in a positive aspect. I have been on good terms with HongHu before, and I daresay some of the other Hive members. I think I'm quite likeable too.

Either of those proposals sounds good. If it is just Hive jitters, we must do whatever we can to reassure them (the Drones too!) that we are not aggressive towards them, but I still say PEACE must die, whether by our hand or not.

If necessary, I volunteer to be special emissary to the Drones to try to find out what their problem is and how we can avoid conflict with them too (I daresay they are just nervous like the Hive is). I did attempt to join the Drones once, but decided against it when I found out they were based off-Poly.

No, bases can't be traded at the FAM screen in SMAC(X)

[Nubclear]

Tass, I have a question here. IF CPU takes PEACE out of the game, what happens then to that PEACE vote?

No, the PEACE vote would be invalidated.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yes. Send WIA to the Drones!

[MrWhereItsAt]

What's going on? Rereading the (now edited) thread that Hive former turn player HongHu posted in the main forum, it seems that there are several Hive citizens posting strongly against any conflict with us. Also, they affirm that CPU has in fact done nothing towards the Hive. I really think that, should the push for the Council vote get ugly again, we can use that to show how out of touch their leaders like Voltaire and HongHu are - these are Hive citizens holding a completely opposite stance, and clearly unhappy with their leaders' attitudes towards us!

Speaking of the motion, what is happening now? Is there a ceasefire, are we obliterating PEACE? Is it time to work on the Hive and Drones to try to get them to agree to PEACE dying, even if what's left of them needs to be partitioned up? We could even give up a strategic base to each of the Hive and Drones, in the interests of promoting closer exchanges between the three of us, and show them that we just wanted PEACE gone, and their territory was not the real issue.

Instructions and updates please!

[Nubclear]

Until such time when Voltaire is disposed, Voltaire will be the official leader of the Hive.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Can't you make him choke on the fruits of the Hive workers' labours?