Hive call to Planetary Government for CPU-PEACE ceasefire!

[Maniac]

Great replies Drogue.

Btw, since they're so going on about the UN Charter forbidding war, how about using their arguments against them and initiating a Planetary Council Motion demanding an exhange of all technology between all factions? From the AI diplomacy blurbs we know free flow of all tech information is part of the UN Charter.

Also we might want to add somewhere that from the infiltration information the Hive gave us, we knew that PEACE was about to infiltrate our datalinks, and that this war started as a defence against this PEACE agression. So we're not the aggressors then. You could also refer to HongHu's last message in the Hive dip exchanges thread where she states "After much discussion we have decided to trust you one more time and to let the probe ship live." This means that the Hive sees an attempt to infiltrate datalinks as a valid reason to start a war.

Also how about adding this:

I am merely questioning why now? Why are the Hive, a faction that has helped us in the war, providing us with infiltration information on PEACE and even offering us credits to help our war effort, now saying that they disagree with it. You were informed of the war many years before we actually declared it. I went too far, in the eyes of many of my faction, in telling your Ambassador about our plans for war long before they were made public, including when it was brought forward two years. At the time, the Hive voiced no concerns whatsoever about our actions, and indeed accepted our explanation for those events. Why have you suddenly changed. I will reiterate. You have changed because since our unification with PUT we have become stronger, and you are trying to find an excuse to weaken us. Other cyborgs even think that you are only out for planetary domination. And that to reach that goal, you claimed to be our friends and helped us, so we would attack PEACE. As a result two of your rival factions would lose resources while the Hive kept growing stronger and stronger. You underestimated the capabilities of the External Affairs Functionality though. Instead of a stalemate war which would weaken two opponents, the war went quicker and more profitable for us than you expected. The Consciousness grew more potent, becoming a threat to Hiveans schemes for world domination. Therefore, and only therefore, you have decided to come to the assistance of the Pirates you betrayed repeatedly only ten years ago. So I would again ask the Hive to stop playing politics with the issues of former PEACE citizens. To the PEACE citizens, I would ask you to realize that the Hive is only using you for their own advantage, while we have made you an honest and still open offer to unify with us and become an equal partner in a Consciousness-PEACE-University Union.

[Drogue]

Have posted already, but will include some of those arguments later. actually, will edit to include the credits thing. The last part though, i would like to leave out for now. If it comes to it, use it, but that will antagonise them to war, IMHO. I have included a summary, since I wanted to reiterate our main points, and have touched on that, but until drawn, or until necessary, I'd like to not accuse them. We don't want them starting a war until we're ready.

Have also replied to Herc, who accused us of genocide Yep, like we've killed every single PEACE citizen

[Maniac]

The last part though, i would like to leave out for now. If it comes to it, use it, but that will antagonise them to war, IMHO.

If the Hive is demanding something as ridiculous and harmful to our vital interests as a return of all assimilated bases to PEACE, it's IMO a clear sign they have already decided to go to war with us, and nothing we say can still change that.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Wow...

You didn't tell me diplomatic exchanges here were so different, WIA.

Course, there was a certain simplicity to being a 'diplomat' for the GoW team...

[Drogue]

UnOrthOdOx: It wasn't always as such. Well, it was always complicated, but they haven't done anything like this for a while. Have a look at at VoyForums for an idea. The password is voltogue.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Drogue,

I am comming from the CivIII PTW demogame where I was on a team dedicated to the power of warfare. We were the 'evil' team from the start of the game, and I personally played that up to it's fullest.

My "diplomacy" was somewhat aggressive in nature, I suppose you could say.

Teams would make similar posts publicly, I would reply by calling it all a bunch of hypocracy and swearing a quest to remove them from the game.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Drogue
I think that's it. Can I post these? A little overkill maybe, but hey, we are in the right, and if they want to agrue, they'd better damn well be prepared to substanciate it

And I suppose you better edit this as well ASAP. Doesn't really fit in this debate

Btw, about HongHu's recent reply.

She counters with the statement that Planetary Council exists from Planetfall, even if they do not gather in the early years. I suggest countering this again with their approval for this war and no atrocities committed.
(Thank 'Tass&Googlie' that no bases were destroyed when taking them over)

Also, why not including another, but this time very specific call to PEACE itself for peace talks?
What I mean is something like:

"CPU feels the damage done to (former) CyCon faction are retibruted for, therefore and in case that PEACE faction may learn a lesson from this, an end of hostilities is proposed. In no case does PEACE have to expect a giving back of bases, these were taken for the above mentioned retributions to individual cyborgs suffering from..." well, you guys now better then I from what those individuals were suffering. And I suggest to brush it up a bit as well, I'm not that proficient in english.

[Drogue]

Ahhh We would do that, but the Hive are powerful. And besides, we have them wrapped round our legal fingers. We are in the right, legally. They're just trying to gain people's support to attack us. We want to remove that support. Preferable get the Drones to remain neutral. Either way, we must finish our current war first.

[GeoModder]

Ok, I take it then that our military progresses as planned, although it might be a good (diplomatic) move to delay the conquest of Atlantis for one turn, but hunt down all PEACE vessels we can find around that island were the cutter is.

We can use that to show that we're restraining ourself, but that only works as long we're sure that no Hive vessel is close enough to 'protect' that base.

[Mart]

After reading posts from council about the cease fire CPU-PEACE, i think that for the CPU image it would be good to stop the war, after maybe taking the bases most strategic for the new border in that region. There would have to be some conditions for the PEACE though, like:

1) Non-aggression pact for at least 20 years.
2) Resignation from any claims for conquered bases so far.

In correspondence with PEACE i would recognize their firm standing in face of total destruction. For that only reason (it is my feeling) i would stop the war. We should keep the proposition of the CPU-PEACE Union open after the cease fire. They might have second thoughts. If they cooperate with HIVE and DRONES, that will be bad for us. On the other hand stopping the war will send the message to the Planet that CPU values honor. If PEACE will be able to appreciate this then we win, and PEACE might finally cooperate with us.

I would not make public the information that HIVE provided us with infiltration info and credits for the war against PEACE. This will surely hit Hive strong, but i think it is enough if PEACE knows it from us.

just some thoughts...

[Maniac]

Are you guys serious about not assimilating Atlantis? I thought it was obvious to everyone that neither the Hive or PEACE expects us to give any reparations to PEACE, but that they're just finding a silly casus belli to attack us, and thus that nothing we say will ultimately make a difference. This is also why instead of replying to our strong arguments and clear signs that we have no aggressive intentions towards them, they keep repeating the same old song and claim that we are a danger for Planet stability.
Therefore I'd say we just continue according to plan and assimilate Atlantis and sink as many PEACE vessels as possible, while steering clear of both the remaining Hive & PEACE ships to prevent a succesful counterattack.

[GeoModder]

The only reason why I propose to delay the assimilation of Atlantis is that it doesn't matter if it is now or in 2159. PEACE has no ec to quick build extra defenses, and even if that is provided by Hive, it can't resist an attack from Mammoth Task Force.
But it might look good on diplo level that we showed some restraint, and at the sound of Herc responses, no deal can be reached with PEACE anyway.

[GeneralTacticus]

Just a point for use again HongHu - the Planetary Council, in-game, does not exist until all surviving factions have met one another, for obvious reasons. Even if one takes it to 'exist' in the sense that one is supposed to be set up, it could not be set up until all factions had met, and thus did not exist until then.

As for Voltaire's point about accepting the UN Charter by being Council members - as there is no way to stop being part of the Council, this should be dismissed.

Finally, as to Voltaire's copious citing of the UN Charter, we might want to point out the complete absence of the countless agencies it provides for, and also play around a bit with the Universal Delcaration of Human Rights, which at numerous points prohibits such acts as nerve stapling.

EDIT: Links:

Charter of the United Nations: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/

Universal Declaration of Human Rights :http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by GeoModder


And I suppose you better edit this as well ASAP. Doesn't really fit in this debate

I was just about to say this! It DOES work though. It shows we aren't even worried.

UnO - this is all brand new since you arrived. The mix of RP for all factions and in-game diplomacy is making it so. I think GoW only BECAME the evil ones rather than set out to be so - is this true?

I think we are going great guns, and must keep up our offensive, and our defense (diplomatically). Furthermore, perhaps we should counterattack the Hive with wild accusations as they are doing, the likes of which have already been mentioned here. There is no reason to stop the war either, until there is no war left.

Something else for the next responses: we have seen posts by the few PEACE members who have either fled or are Hive sympathisers themselves - there has been no flood of refugees, and with the exception of these one or two PEACE dissenters who have posted, all of the PEACE citizenry is living comfortably and equally in CPU bases and are so disgusted at the accusations against their government that they do not wish to respond. How else can they explain a flood of refugees unhappy with their new lives being whittled down to 2 or 3? Instead the PEACE citizens in the CPU trust their chosen representatives in the CPU government (which we should add is NOT CyCon, but an efficient Union of what was three factions, united for the benefit of all its members) to defend against these unjust attacks.

Again, softly softly. We can run rings around them like this, and they are continuing to come up with the same arguments already. Keep calling for negotiations to be opened if the parties want to, and we have the biggest trump card of them all - the Hive criticises but will not commit itself diplomatically to resolving this situation, and is providing only hollow words supposedly on behalf of PEACE, a faction for which they claim to sympathise, but in reality they are using as merely an excuse to offend CPU for no good end.

[Maniac]

Can I post this?

HongHu:

Secondly, you are absolutely right that the Hive is not speaking for the PEACE entirely from an altruistic point of view; rather, the Hive is standing up for the sake of itself. What we witness in this planet council meeting is exactly what we feared. We realize that one day, what is happening to PEACE might also happen to the Hive. We do not wish to see such a scenario, that is after the majority of our bases were taken by military force, we were offered “options” that we can either “voluntarily” give up all of our bases and become member of CPU, or face the total elimination from the planet. The people of the Hive value their independence. We would not want to be forced into the “open arms” of anybody. Yes the trigger of the motion has everything to do with the establishment of CPU as well as the real prospect that a faction is about to be eliminated. We may not fear a strong faction. But it is to the benefit of the entire planet that a strong and aggressive faction needs to be checked.

If your safety is your true concern, then the solution is very simple: a demilitarized zone and a recognition of each other's spheres of influence.
I propose the following:
(32.46), (34.40), (36.38), (42.38), (43.37) and the two islands between those coordinates become a demilitarized zone.
Everything northwest of that is Hive territory, and everything southeast of that is CPU territory.
Any unit of any faction which trespasses the DMZ or enters the territory of the other faction, is considered in violation of the treaty and may be destroyed.

Surely if your interest is peace and stability on Planet, you will see the rationality of such an agreement.