Hive call to Planetary Government for CPU-PEACE ceasefire!

[Maniac]

GeoModder, since you have a history of thinking to join the pirates and thus would be more likely accepted as their legitimate regional leader, and since you're in command of the military which has a strong presence in the PEACE region, I made you the democratic representative of PEACE in the Council. I hope you don't mind.

The idea is of course that we have right to the Pirate council seat, and that the remaining and fled Pirate elite in Crossbone Way doesn't represent the whole of PEACE. A bit like Communist China claiming the UN Security Council that Chang Kai Shek, who fled to Taiwan, held for some time after.

[GeneralTacticus]

Somehow, I don't think that's going to be accepted unless we can persuade the existing Council members that our war is justified, and if we can do that, the necessity for having a vote in the first place vanishes.

[Maniac]

Who cares if it is accepted? This is just their silly roleplay to justify what they want to do anyhow.

[laurentius]

Should I post this:


"I'd like to point out that without Hives approval the whole war between PEACE and CyCon would never have started at all. It was with Hives support that we decided to go to war. And the Hive was never neutral in any way about this, nono. They PROVIDED US with infiltration information of PEACE for example. So they KNEW and APPROVED the current situation beforehand. Now the winds have turned I see, well all I can say is HIVE BETRAYS ONCE AGAIN. They dont seem very trustworthy. As a victim of this backstabbing I warn any ally of Hive to be very careful with them, because you could be the next they decieve.

kassad omicron-9, second function of CPU"

[GeneralTacticus]

Looks fine to me.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Arnelos
If CyCon is proposing that the sovereignty of PEACE be transferred from the currently recognized government to a new government, such a proposal will need to pass a vote of this council before it becomes official. Until that time, the original government of PEACE will retain its council membership, its voting rights, and international recognition of its sovereign rights over its territory.

Ah, I see Arn has entered the fray... Expect things to get more meticulous and logical, and thus more difficult to argue against.

May I reply with the following?

The flaw of official conclusions such as this is that they do not work in situations that are not the status quo. This same line of logic would lead to confirming the voting rights and sovereignty of a nation that does not exist - if there are enough factions that believe it to be the case or are willing to show that they do for their own ends, it must be the case. Certainly such an idea is completely irrational, and thus it appears we cannot trust implicitly in such reasoning without appealing to all the facts.

The fact is that PEACE was, and still is a threat (until such a time as they enter into negotiations with us by SOME means) to the peoples of the CPU, who wish only to strive for efficiency and safety. When such core principles are undermined for any faction are we all to submit to a vote from factions who do not necessarily hold those cores values to be self-evident?

Would the Hive submit to a vote by the other factions where its core principles were undermined and attacked? I should hope not. Why should any faction have to submit to the wills of those different to it, who cannot understand, no matter the vote count.

[laurentius]

Sure, I'm eager to see arnelos starting the mud slingin ala civ3 DG

[GeoModder]

How about this response to Kody already:

Originally posted by Kody
Firstly you already had the army ready to go before you were given the peace base information.

Both parties had an standing army before hostilities started. As is normal for factions.

Originally posted by Kody
I no longer hold those views and apologise to the Peace for my actions.

Care to share why your views have changed?
I realize that you have no legitimaty anymore in this game, but as you just put it you did start the sequence who led to this situation.

Originally posted by Kody
It was only after I left that I realised my serious mistake, but since I was already officially out of the Hive it was too late to made reparations to the Peace.

Your former faction members had always the possibility to make 'reparations' for those 'mistakes', yet appearantly choose not to do so. Also, you were always in a position to ask them to do so.

This last ditch attempt to stop this war is then a farce in one more way.

First the Hive leadership (under you, then) allows this war to happen, probably to weaken two factions who have still easy means to expand further. Then later recognizes too late the efficiency whereupon the CPU follows their course of action. And third, by getting payment in the form of technology, tries protecting PEACE and starts this farce in front of the Planetary Council.


And this as our answer to the council when all 5 legitimate factions (according to Tass) have posted their vote on the Hive motion.
But I still need work a bit on a fitting begin.

The reasons brought up by the Hive (humanitarian disaster, atrocities, etc...) are even more contemptious in light of the long standing war the Hive is performing versus the Data Angels. And before the Hive responses with "our war is a non-violent war" or the likes, our present information reveals that the Hive has plenty of military vessels in the vicinity of Angel territory, thus showing that the Hive itself does not shies back from the destruction of human lives, causing civilian casualties and breaking the sovereignity of independant factions/states/nations. Whether or not Hive was first to initiate that war, it appears that it still continues it with no restraint, and surely isn't keeping this a "defense" war till agreements can be reached with the opposing partie.

Does the Hive in this light cares to stand next to those they accuse?

As on the Hive appeal for a ceasefire:

CyCon, and later CPU, have brought forward unification proposal(s) to PEACE leadership. It is off course within the right of PEACE leadership to refuse those proposals, but by not sending out counter proposals to CPU, they show their disregard of a diplomatic solution in the face of an escalating war, having gone so far in their contemptious silence towards CPU that they even refuse to directly communicate with CPU, but are appealing through a member of the Planetary Council, and so bringing in danger the stability of the whole planetary society.

At any moment the last 7 MY, PEACE leadership could have asked a halting of hostilities, sparing their soldiers lives, and acknowledging their losses, but they refuse to do so.
Instead, their troop movements and 'burning ground' tactics at nearly conquered bases show a disregard for those staying behind and the remainder of population under their surveillance.

PEACE leadership may continue to moan as they see fit, but cannot deny the fact that they refuse to enter into negotiations with CPU and let former PEACE citizens suffer from lack of appropriate facilities by destroying those unnecessary.

[laurentius]

guys wait up...im onto something.

Please dont post at that thread until further notice. Flame war could compromise possible solution to this at hand....

more soon

[Drogue]

Sorry about my absence, have been offline. I know they seem to be voting, but can I post this:

Originally posted by Voltaire
the ruling and will of this Council

The council has not voted or ruled, and has no precident to do such. We have never ratified the UN Charter, and our acceptance is not part of being part of this council, since we cannot opt out of this council. As for your allegation that war is an atrocity, it is clearly not defined as such, since the game defines atrocities very specifically, as we have said all along. War is not illegal, the UN Charter is not our guiding doctrine, else the Peacekeepers mission to make it our doctrine would have already been accomplished, and thus this council has no legal basis for any kind of ruling on the matter.

I also find the irony of a faction that is so against democracy that their official newsletter states that democracy is wrong, a faction that runs a Police State form of government, is advocating a democratic way of enforcing their so called morals.

In short, we will happily enter into council supervised negotiations, providing you can get PEACE, the faction that has so far not agreed to such, to agree. However we will not call a ceasefire, as that would be illogical, allowing our military to soak up government funds when they are not being used.

Originally posted by Voltaire
I plead to the people of the CyCon on behalf of the People of the Human Hive to look at your leaders

The people have once against elected the CyCon government, which came into power a few days ago.

Originally posted by Voltaire
look at the atrocities they are committing in your name

We have not committed an atrocity, as we have continually said. The council and game defines atroicities specifically, and we haven't committed any.

Ladies and gentlemen of the council. The Hive had produced not a single shred of evidence for these so called atrocities they claim we have committed, and as you are well aware, atrocities are clearly defined, and war is not one of them. War is not illegal. The UN Charter is a piece of old earth legislation, and has never been ratified on Chiron. Brother Lal did try, in the begining, but his followers quickly disbanded.

CPU has broken no international law on Chiron, despite the wild allegations of the Human Hive. We are willing, as we have always been, to negotiate with PEACE. However hostilities will not cease until an agreement is reached.

********

And then say that this is not a council matter, since the CPU have the ability to decide what we do with our military forces, and there is nothing illegal about what we have done, that is in contravention of international law.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
However we will not call a ceasefire, as that would be illogical, allowing our military to soak up government funds when they are not being used.

Though it is of course true, I wouldn't mention this. We would probably get lots of reactions that this comment shows that we intent to attack another faction as soon as PEACE is finished, and prove that CPU is aggressive.

As for the rest

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by laurentius
guys wait up...im onto something.

Please dont post at that thread until further notice. Flame war could compromise possible solution to this at hand....

more soon

Next time you better send an PM to all 'buddies', then you're sure the message is heard before they post anything damaging.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Though it is of course true, I wouldn't mention this. We would probably get lots of reactions that this comment shows that we intent to attack another faction as soon as PEACE is finished, and prove that CPU is aggressive.

I think we need to address Voltaire's direct question, but I'll take out the bit about our military, just that we will not accept a ceasefire while talks go on.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Sorry - I couldn't resist.

Voltaire was going off topic, so I called him on it and asked that, if he wants us to stay on topic, he should do so himself. Also, I noted that he refuses to acknowledge the union of CyCon and University. I called this, in effect, a slap in the face, and that I hope that this is his personal problem with the CPU and not a reflection of the Hive itself. Due to this clear problem with us, I asked that he either hide his illogical emotional responses or ask a less biased Hive member to take over.

Except in much more diplomatic language, natch.

Sorry guys, it just takes so long for someone to respond here, and when they do it is usually when I am at work or asleep. I want to contribute to this debate, not be shut out of it due to my timezone! Hopefully no-one has a problem with what I say. Already the last post I put up for approval here is out of date

[Nubclear]

Hmm....Well, the motion to stop the CyCon-PEACE war must be voted on now.
The Hive has voted for it, and CPU has voted against.
The Drones and PEACE have not voted, though I'm sure it won't be that difficult to guess PEACEs vote