PUT Diplomatic Exchanges

[Impaler[WrG]]

I guess they whent for a random tec as it makes no sense to tartegt steal a tec the Hive will have very soon. Lets see if they sent it to the Hive and if the Hive tec switches this turn. If they dont and the Hive continues to reserch and enventualy Finish Env Econ then that would indicate the Hive/Drones are Not is a close buddy relationship and the danger of MMI is reduced and will likly be from the Drones ONLY.

Regardless of the Hive/Drone relationship we need to keep the UNI from getting Probe Raped.

[laurentius]

From Impaler:

"I think we want to keep UNI pact secret, make a declaration that we wish to Pact with everyone as the war wraps up. Then send preaccepted offer to the Drones and to UNI but tell uni to reject it so that Hive Drones dont suspect anything.

Meanwhile telling the Hive/Drones that we hope UNI does not accept and that they will not be tipped off and when uni does NOT accept the PACT they will think UNI infact does not like us. And if we conduct any tech trades with Uni we should say it was a probe action."


Edited from dataflow and logs by kassad omicron-9, codename laurentius, your mainframe dataflow monitor-function

[Maniac]

Could someone please warn Archaic? It should be sent soon before he plays the turn, and I don't have the time to write a PM now.

[Maniac]

I sent this:

Hi Archaic, (cc to GT)

The theft only happened in the most recent turn. buster announced it in the turn tracking thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2614816#post2614816

Forgot to mention - Drones now have a state of vendetta with uni. Rumours say it has to do with undercover enforment of the DPL*(1)(2). Any questions are referred to the part time PR officer (office hours between 4.40 and 4.35 AM on sept 24).


*Drone-Public License - Patent law amendment adopted by drones as regards to technologies saying Drones are exempt from any regulations on this subject.

(1) For those who still don't get it - one of our probes got annoyed by a Uni base blocking its forward movement bought a ticket home there and brought a souvenir from their labs.

(2) For the really dense - Uni was probed by Drones forcing Drones to declare Vendetta to be in compliance with rules.

Our diplomatic conversations with the Hive and Drones revealed two things we want to warn you about. Please keep it a secret we are telling you this.

First is that Kody told us he will ask the Hive to go to war with you if you land your scout patrol and unity foil again on Hive lands. We can come to your assistance later if the Hive and/or Drones decide to attack you, but now of course all our troops are dedicated to the PEACE assimilation. So please do not provocate the Hive. A war now would probably lead to a Hive-Drone victory and a PUT-CC defeat.

Secondly we asked the Drones what are their further plans towards you. From their answer we get the impression they will attempt further tech thefts in the next few turns. So please stay on your guard and further strengthen your probe defences, as the ones you had now apparently proved insufficient. Do you have a patrolling fleet in the north btw which could eliminate incoming ships?

Another point, do you agree to a map exchange immediately as proposed in the previous PM, and will you offer it this turn?

Greetings,

Maniac

Archaic wrote on 08-01-2004 11:11:
I was not. The drones have not informed me (or my faction before the takeover) of this, as they would be required to do in a proper PBEM. Furthermore, we have had Probe Teams in coastal bases for quite some time, and have registered no losses.

Then again, I haven't yet opened the most recent turn, mainly because I'm high on painkillers for my busted knee.

[Maniac]

Start of Chat GeneralTacticus buffer: Fri Jan 09 03:24:46 2004
Chat with GeneralTacticus
Waiting for acknowledgement...
DCC Chat connection established
-
(Maniac) Hi GT :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Hi.
(Maniac) You asked for IRC, here I am. :-)))
(Maniac) Do you plan to play the turn right now?
(GeneralTacticus) No.
(Maniac) ok
(GeneralTacticus) I still have some time before I get close to the 48-hour limit, and I want to see
if I can talk to Archaic first.
(GeneralTacticus) As I have absolutely no idea what kind of plans he has.
(Maniac) That's a pity. :-( But you asked for the points the CyCon would like you to keep in mind
while playing the turn.
(Maniac) That way you would at least know something. :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Yeah, thanks.
(GeneralTacticus) Could you summarise it a bit, please
(GeneralTacticus) It's rather a lot to try to digest all at once.
(Maniac) As far as I can think of right now, there are three things for this turn:
(Maniac) 1) Please offer your world map in the diplomacy window. We agreed on a map exchange. :-)
(Maniac) 2) Could you please check and tell us in what year you will research Neural Grafting, and
what is your current research speed (years per tech)? We're trying to find out if we can leapfrog
together to D:AP and/or MMI.
(GeneralTacticus) Ok, got those two.
(GeneralTacticus) Hell, I can look the turn up now for that.
(Maniac) 3) We would advise you to strengthen your probe defences, as more probe rapes can be
expected! Though of course we don't have a pact yet, so we are not aware of how good your current
defences are.
(Maniac) thanks :-)
(Maniac) Then there are other matters as when we would pact, and whether we would trade some
technology, but that can be done in later turns as well. :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Do you know of a base located at 73,55?
(GeneralTacticus) And as for research - we will have Neural Grafting next turn, with research being
done every 4 turns.
(Maniac) I don't really know. I'll open SMAX. Impaler is the expert on base location.
(Maniac) Darn, then the drones could steal Neural next turn and have MMI in only a few years. :-(
(GeneralTacticus) Do you know the locations of any Drone or Hive probes?
(GeneralTacticus) Or how many they have?
(Maniac) As we're pacted with the Hive, we know they have one probe foil and one probe team +
transport not in their bases
(Maniac) We don't know the location though
(Maniac) But if we have your map, we'll be able to spot any Hive unit on the territory you have
explored.
(GeneralTacticus) Hmmm... well, all coastal bases have probe defences, so I'm at something of a loss
regarding where the Drones stole that tech from.
(Maniac) About the drones we know nothing. :-(
(Maniac) ??????? And there are no reported battle losses?
(GeneralTacticus) Although... now that I look at the map, they could have landed in a few places and
stolen it using a land transport.
(GeneralTacticus) And no, there are no reported battle losses.
(Maniac) Do you perhaps bases without probes that are only one tile away from the sea?
(Maniac) That could explain things
(GeneralTacticus) Yes. I'm looking at them and trying to see how I could reshuffle our probes so that
they're all covered.
(GeneralTacticus) And really, I might as well play the rest of the turn now.
(GeneralTacticus) You wanted our maps, correct?
(Maniac) Okay. :-) Will you build extra probes and perhaps ships to patrol the coasts?
(Maniac) If that's ok for you. :-)
(GeneralTacticus) We're building a good few probes already.
(Maniac) We will offer ours in return, and we can also provide you a servive by warning you if Hive
units are nearby
(Maniac)
(GeneralTacticus) Ok... is th plan for us to gift you our maps and then you recipocrate, or that we
exchange?
(GeneralTacticus) And I think I know where the Drones stole their tech from.
(Maniac) Either is fine for me. I guess it's up to you. The only difference is that if you already
pre-accept now, we can warn you one turn earlier of any Hive unit nearby
(GeneralTacticus) Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
(Maniac) I guess you don't have a ship nearby to sink the offender? ;-)
(GeneralTacticus) I'll do that, I trust you're smart enough not to backstab us for the sake of some
maps.
(Maniac) thanks :-)
(GeneralTacticus) So you take the maps, and then offer yours pre-accepted, and we take them in return.
(Maniac) indeed
(Maniac) Btw, I was wondering about something.
(GeneralTacticus) Yes?
(GeneralTacticus) Ok, I think I've reshuffled the probe defences appropriately.
(Maniac) One reason the Hive and Drones can keep their research cost low is because they exchange
unit prototypes they retro-engineer, meaning they don't have to trade techs such as Doc:Flex, HEC
etc. We could do the same if you're interested. To make prototype exchange easier though, and not
have to bother with transports all the time it would be handy for there to be a land link between
our two continents. There what would you think of raising the land on (80.52)?
(Maniac) *Therefore
(Maniac) (73.55) is a base of us btw.
(GeneralTacticus) Your continent is there, is it?
(Maniac) indeed
(GeneralTacticus) An interesting proposition, although that would be more Archaic's business than
mine.
(GeneralTacticus) As I have no formers within reach this turn.
(Maniac) It of course also depends on your former capacity etc
(Maniac) indeed
(GeneralTacticus) Still, I'll pass it on.
(Maniac) However I thought it might be something interesting to keep in mind for the future. :-)
(GeneralTacticus) And it'll be very much a long-term thing, because that entire area is buried in
fungus.
(GeneralTacticus) Indeed it is.
(Maniac) There is a bug that allows you to build roads on fungus without having to remove it
(Maniac) So that would reduce the time
(GeneralTacticus) Is it allowed?
(GeneralTacticus) And what is it, anyway?
(Maniac) We asked Googlie, and he didn't respond. So we've used it. ;-)
(GeneralTacticus) What's the bug?
(Maniac) Instead of simply building a road, use Ctrl-R to "Construct road to"
(GeneralTacticus) Incidentally, what was that you mentioned in the PM about the Hive or the Drones
declaring war if we did something?
(GeneralTacticus) Ah, I think I've heard of that one...
(Maniac) The former should build roads without first removing the fungus
(Maniac) The Hive is pretty annoyed with some transport & scout patrol you would apparently have
around their coasts
(Maniac) Kody would prefer to declare war on you if you land your scout patrol on their lands again.
(Maniac) As we're not really in a situation where we can defeat the Hive and Drone, I'd ask please
not to provocate the Hive right now.
(GeneralTacticus) Hmmm... I think I know what units he's talking about.
(GeneralTacticus) And what we did with them.
(GeneralTacticus) And right now, they're moving away from Hive territory.
(Maniac) Ah ok :-) He already said he didn't know the current location of your transport
(Maniac) No problem then.
(GeneralTacticus) You don't have the Hive's maps, do you?
(Maniac) Unfortunately not :-(
(Maniac) As we have pact infiltration data, we could put together some map using overlapping base
screens, but we haven't had time to do so yet. :-(
(GeneralTacticus) Well, just a small thing - we mapped a bit of their territory with the
aforementioned scout + transport.
(GeneralTacticus) And we know a tiny bit of their current tarraforming plans.
(Maniac) :-)
(Maniac) lots of forests and condensers I assume
(GeneralTacticus) They've stuck a landmark on the 'Shrine of Googlie' saying "Road+Forest Area Near
Fungus".
(Maniac) lol
(GeneralTacticus) So unless they're trying to trick us, we can file that away under "what to expect
here".
(Maniac) I guess that's Kody giving instructions to other turns players :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Perhaps.
(GeneralTacticus) Anyway, that's this turn done, so I should post it.
(Maniac) Ah ok. Time for me to make detailed plans for this turn then. :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Posted.
(GeneralTacticus) Do tell me if it turns out the Hive have any nearby units.
(Maniac) I can quickly check right now if you like
(GeneralTacticus) btw, what relationship do the Hive have with the Drones?
(Maniac) pact
(GeneralTacticus) Please do.
(GeneralTacticus) Can you see if you can find out from the Hive whether the Drones have any units
near us?
(Maniac) How could I do that?
(GeneralTacticus) Ask them.
(Maniac) ah ok
(Maniac) I though you meant in-game
(GeneralTacticus) No, no, I realise that would be impossible...
(GeneralTacticus) btw, were sensor bouys allowed at the beginning of the game?
(Maniac) If we ask them such detailed questions, they might start suspecting things though
(Maniac) sensor bouys? Sea sensors?
(GeneralTacticus) Yes.
(GeneralTacticus) And I'm sure you can come up with an excuse.
(GeneralTacticus) Say you don't want to be surprised next time, or something.
(Maniac) Don't know about sea sensors I'm afraid. I have the turn opened now btw. I'll check for units
(Maniac) No units spotted. Don't know if that is good news or bad news.
(Maniac) Perhaps they're using the probes to infiltrate the Angels
(GeneralTacticus) Neither do I. Probably good, because it means we don't have to worry.
(Maniac) :-)
(GeneralTacticus) Hah. Let them probe one another to death.
(Maniac) Wow, your starting location is really blessed with minerals btw.
(Maniac) PEACE too has a rocky mineral mine. It seems we are the only ones that don't have a rocky
mineral :-(((((((
(GeneralTacticus) You sure?
(Maniac) About the minerals? Yes. We got a monolith, a nutrient bonus and an energy bonus near our
HQ, but no minerals :-(
(Maniac) We do have the Garland Crater, but an earthquake and a fungal bloom made that useless
(GeneralTacticus) Bad luck.
(Maniac) Anyway, I'll go concentrate on writing the definite orders for our turn. Bye. :-)
End of Chat GeneralTacticus buffer Fri Jan 09 03:24:46 2004

[Maniac]

Fourth post in a row : PM to PUT:

---

Hi Archaic (cc to GT),

Immediate Map Exchange works for me.

Glad to hear that. I have arranged this matter with GT while he played the turn. In our turn our map has been offered pre-accepted, so you'll have ours too by your next turn.

I never considered landing the scout on Hive lands again, don't worry. Actually, the foil was moving southwards, towards where I can see a base radius I believe is yours.

Do you mean coordinates (73.55): DBTSverse Portal? GT asked me about that location.
Would that transport - or any other - be able to reach DBTSverse Portal or any other piece of our territory (eg the most eastern (87.53) or (88.56)) within say the next five turns? I ask because, besides other tech deals we proposed, the Consciousness would be interested in obtaining the special "trance" ability without the need to obtain the technology "Secrets of the Human Brain" and thereby needlessly increasing our tech costs. I thought that perhaps you could upgrade the scout patrol in the transport to a 1-1t-1, land it in our territory and transfer unit control over to us, thereby giving us the trance ability to retro-engineer. You would of course be sufficiently compensated for such a deal. And once we have dealt with PEACE and have transports to spare, we can use the same tactic to trade you certain chassis, weapon and armour types without you having to deal with dramatically increasing tech costs.

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

[Impaler[WrG]]

Obtaining Trace would be nice. Also we need to start working on sime kind of trade deal between us that will give us both MMI quickly. If we can get SFF from Drones then we can have Air Power almost imediatly. The University will probly have faster reserch so we should give them AirPower in exchange for some usefull Tec and then when they get MMI they send that to us and we split the projects. Could Maniac propose something along these lines to Archaic.

Also ask if their interested in trading restriction lifting tecs for anything we currently have.

[Drogue]

I have an idea:

We get research SFF (we probably won't be able to trade for it)
We give SFF to PUT, who give us Env Econ.
We both begin research on AP, whoever get's it first gives it to the other one, who changes to MMI and reciprocates. We get the CBA and they get the CF. Sound good?

That way we are both get AP, SFF and MMI, and we get Env Econ and split the projects. What are PUT currently researching?

[Maniac]

What are PUT currently researching?

They will finish researching Neural Grafting this turn.

We both begin research on AP, whoever get's it first gives it to the other one, who changes to MMI and reciprocates.

That would only work if they give us Neural Grafting.

How about this PM:

---

Hi Archaic and GeneralTacticus,

I see you have read all my latest PMs, yet you have not responded. Are you no longer interested in cooperation?

In any case, I have decided to write to you another proposal for technological cooperation. It involves an attempt to together leapfrog to MMI as fast as possible. With the Drones having researched D:AP this year and declaring Vendetta on you, we feel this may be of use to you.
My proposal goes like this:

IIRC you research Neural Grafting this turn MY 2153. As a consequence you have to pick a new technology to research. I would want to request you to pick as your next goal a technology the Consciousness already has and can give to you. I think the possibilities for you are Doctrine: Initiative, Applied Physics or Progenitor Psych.

In MY 2154 the Consciousness will research Synthetic Fossil Fuels. We will give that tech to you pre-accepted together with the technology you are currently researching at that moment. You'll get the two techs MY 2155 then IIRC.

As a consequence of our two techs you would be able to switch research to Doctrine: Air Power. We would start research on D:AP as well.

You would research DAP a few years later. Then I would propose you give us Doctrine: Air Power and Neural Grafting. We could then switch research to Mind/Machine Interface, if it were not for the mod3 rule (see Minute Mirage's excel file) that will prevent us to choose MMI at that time. We'll need another tech to be able to switch research to MMI. It is possible we can trade Ecological Engineering with the Hive in a few years. If not, could you please give it to us to circumvent the mod3 problem?
In any case, if everything goes according to plan, we should be able to research MMI some time later and give it to you.

Summarized, we'd need to give each other the following technology:

PUT->CyCon

• Doctrine: Air Power
• Neural Grafting
• Possibly Ecological Engineering
  Also by giving us Neural Grafting, we would no longer be required to research Secrets of the Human Brain to get that tech, so it is only honest to let Neural Grafting count double. I'll reflect that by putting SotHB on the list of techs you give us.
• Secrets of the Human Brain

CyCon->PUT

• Doctrine: Initiative (I guess that would be the most useful of the three - tell me if you'd like another)
• Mind/Machine Interface
• Synthetic Fossil Fuels.
  By giving you Synthetic Fossil Fuels, you would no longer be required to research Applied Physics and High Energy Chemistry, so it would only be honest to let SFF count triple. I'll reflect that by putting Applied Physics and High Energy Chemistry on the list of techs we give you. If you want, we can give you to them immediately, or if you can wait a few years, we'll send you prototypes of them after the PEACE war is finished. That way you'll be able to retro-engineer them and keep your tech costs lower.
• Applied Physics
• High Energy Chemistry

How does this sound to you? We give you five techs in exchange for four, and you'll get D:AP and also MMI way sooner than you normally would.
Could you please react soon if you're interested, because this proposal can only work if this turn already you start research on a tech we already have.

Thanks,

Maniac

[Drogue]

There are bits I'm not sure about. Offer them SFF and HEC, and say that is like an extra tech, since they would not need Applied Physics, but if they wished it we could send that as well. They need HEC for plasma steel, and putting the 3 techs in one first sounds a little like we're trying to do them over. I think we should stress that we can send them if they want. Also, we want SoHB, since that gives us trance, so just ask them to send it. And skip the first bit, they aren't going cold, Archaic is ill and GT doesn't know as much since Archaic has been playign recently.

Something like this:

Hi Archaic and GeneralTacticus,

In any case, I have decided to write to you another proposal for technological cooperation. It involves an attempt to together leapfrog to MMI as fast as possible. With the Drones having researched D:AP this year and declaring Vendetta on you, we feel this may be of use to you.
My proposal goes like this:

IIRC you research Neural Grafting this turn MY 2153. As a consequence you have to pick a new technology to research. I would want to request you to pick as your next goal a technology the Consciousness already has and can give to you. I think the possibilities for you are Doctrine: Initiative, Applied Physics or Progenitor Psych.

In MY 2154 the Consciousness will research Synthetic Fossil Fuels. We will give that tech to you pre-accepted together with the technology you are currently researching at that moment. You'll get the two techs MY 2155 then IIRC.

As a consequence of our two techs you would be able to switch research to Doctrine: Air Power. We would start research on D:AP as well.

You would research DAP a few years later. Then I would propose you give us Doctrine: Air Power and Neural Grafting. We could then switch research to Mind/Machine Interface, if it were not for the mod3 rule (see Minute Mirage's excel file) that will prevent us to choose MMI at that time. We'll need another tech to be able to switch research to MMI. It is possible we can trade Ecological Engineering with the Hive in a few years. If not, could you please give it to us to circumvent the mod3 problem?
In any case, if everything goes according to plan, we should be able to research MMI some time later and give it to you.

Summarized, we'd need to give each other the following technology:

PUT->CyCon

Doctrine: Air Power
Neural Grafting
Ecological Engineering
Also by giving us Neural Grafting, we would no longer be required to research Secrets of the Human Brain to get that tech, so it is only honest to let Neural Grafting count double. I'll reflect that by putting SotHB on the list of techs you give us.
Secrets of the Human Brain


CyCon->PUT

Doctrine: Initiative (I guess that would be the most useful of the three - tell me if you'd like another)
Mind/Machine Interface
Synthetic Fossil Fuels.
By giving you Synthetic Fossil Fuels, you would no longer be required to research Applied Physics, so it would only be honest to let SFF count double. I'll reflect that by putting Applied Physics on the list of techs we give you. If you want, we can give you to it immediately. Or you can leave it and keep your tech costs lower.
Applied Physics

We would also be willing to give you a plasma unit to re-engineer, or High Energy Chemistry, that would help against the Drones in their vendetta.

How does this sound to you? We give you five techs in exchange for four, and you'll get D:AP and also MMI way sooner than you normally would.

Yours,
Drogue

[Maniac]

Good idea about HEC. Presenting HEC as an extra bonus instead of part of the "SFF counts triple" argument is much better.

Also, we want SoHB, since that gives us trance, so just ask them to send it.

If they agree to this deal, should we ask them though to only lend us a unit with the trance ability to retro-engineer, and not the whole tech?

[Drogue]

Either way, I'm not too fussed. We don't get the extra tech cost with the unit, but we have to wait for them to give it to us, which would be after the war when we can get a transport up there. With the tech we get extra tech cost but don't have to waste transporter time, and we get it sooner.

Which is better?

[Maniac]

I asked them if they could send that transport that was bothering the Hive a while back to our territory, and transfer the unit control of the scout (upgraded with trance) in it to us. If they can in the near future, brilliant. If not, getting SotHB would indeed be best.

Can I send the PM btw, with your modification?

[Drogue]

Sure Sounds good Put your bold type and stuff back in (I missed it doing a copy paste) and put your greeting or whatever you feel

You could add a bit on the bottom along the lines of "get well soon" to Archaic if you want:
"We at the Conciousness wish you a speedy recovery" or something.

[Maniac]

Sent with "We at the Consciousness wish you a speedy knee regeneration cycle."