Announcement

**Corellion** · September 9, 2003, 09:08

No, no. I mean does he think there's a chance that the Pirates will say we DON'T owe them EthCalc? Even if we didn't owe them it I can't see them saying no.

**Drogue** · September 9, 2003, 10:10

If we haven't transferred a tech to them since the last trade, then we do owe them it. I'm 99% sure we didn't, and thus we do. However I wanted to check.

**Drogue** · September 9, 2003, 10:29

Here is a PM from Flubber quoted with my reponses. The quotes form the entire PM (except the greetings and signoff of course):

After discussion wih our cuspidore, he informs me that you folks do owe us a tech and that ethical calculus was the one indicated. he did say though that some other new tech ( not the old level ones that we bypassed and could have acquired a dozen times already)would probably make an acceptable alternative.

Yes, that was what I had understood. I think it will be ethical Calc, looking at our research plans, but if soemthign else comes up, we can discuss it

The idea of trading doc flex is being discussed favorably in our council and I hope to report back favorably and continue negotiations such that the trade can be made soon. I haven't looked at our turn but I seem to recall that you had at least 3 more turns before discovery .( I can check this with our operations folks)

I think you are correct. I look forward to doing the deal. We already have permission to do it, pending approval of the particular tech you might want.

I look forward to making this deal and many more. I also hope to broach with you whether your faction would consider a pact to the end with us. I am personally in favor and will raise the idea with my government to see if they are in favor in principle. Bottom line is that there are a lot of strong and dangerous factions out there

I agree completely. I (or Mani Alpha-3) will put it to the people.

I will study our turn to look at our research plan, and see what we are expecting to get soon.

- Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

**Maniac** · September 9, 2003, 11:16

IIRC seven turns instead of three to get to DocFlex is more realistic.

If I read correctly, that permapact is just a proposal of Flubber. So we should wait with polling until we know what the common pirates thinks about it.

**Drogue** · September 9, 2003, 11:29

I agree. I just want tech trades, but we don't need to teel them that. The saferr that feel, the more we can trade, and the more we can militarize

We can agree to a permapact and go back on it, since unless there is some unwritten code, it is just like a Pact, the rest is informal but agreed?

**Chaunk** · September 9, 2003, 11:43

I don't like that idea. If we agree to a permapact (Which I'm all for btw) then it's a perma pact to the end of the game. If we don't think we want that then we don't agree to the pact, but I'm very much opposed to going back on it. It's just not cricket!

C

**Drogue** · September 9, 2003, 11:50

Ok. I just think CyCon have the whole pay people of against each other and do what is best for us thing. But I can understand some people's problems. How can we sign a permapact though, since we do not know what the future wll hold?

And not being cricket is a good thing

**DeathByTheSword** · September 9, 2003, 12:14

well i am sorry but dimplomatic pacts are valid as long as we think they are valid...that is one of the most importent lessons civ and SMAC teached me...not mentioning the board game...rules and agreements are ment to be broken when the time is right...so i would go for a permapact...hack pact everbody...until the pact is no longer needed...besides of thinking it is the best way...i also believe it is very cycon

**Maniac** · September 9, 2003, 12:32

Personally I'm against a permapact. Not only because of the objections Chaunk made, but simply because I wouldn't want to win this game together with those pirates. For the moment the Hive are the only ones with which I would be willing to sign a permapact.

**Drogue** · September 9, 2003, 15:10

I'd go for a Hive Pact. Let us just be nice to Kody, HongHu, Jamski, Vev and Voltaire and hope that when the time comes, they will accept the hand of friendship (we would be a formidable team). But for that, we must either get to them before the PUT do (they'd be a good team too) or be winning the tech race. If we want it to be actually a permapact, like Chaunk suggests, then I would be against it. If we feel more like DBTS and want to feel safe, until we want to not be (

) then I am for it.

**Corellion** · September 9, 2003, 15:35

Although I have no qualms with going back on a pact (even a permapact), there are other factors we need to consider. Going back on a pact will severely undermine our credibility with the other factions. This is a very important facet we need to consider before taking any action. After all, if our other allies no longer trust us, what position are we left in?

As for the Hive, here is some interesting news I received in a message from Voltaire: they have some information on us. Voltaire told me (though I'm not sure if he actually knew this, or if he was making it up) that the Hive knew that there were some problems in our pact with PEACE. Considering neither I nor anybody else (as far as I know) has told them of our pact, this is interesting. He has been telling me for some time now that he knows of our pact, but I've dismissed it as his guessing (his explanation is that Kody has been 'watching the power graph', although he insinuated that Kody's been doing a little more than that). This then lent a little more credibility to his next statement that he expects that they will receive our commlink within the next few turns. Interesting events.

**Maniac** · September 9, 2003, 16:05

He has been telling me for some time now

Has Voltaire been sending you PMs?

As for the Hive, here is some interesting news I received in a message from Voltaire: they have some information on us. Voltaire told me (though I'm not sure if he actually knew this, or if he was making it up) that the Hive knew that there were some problems in our pact with PEACE. Considering neither I nor anybody else (as far as I know) has told them of our pact, this is interesting.

I see two possibilities:
1) The Hive has met the Pirates.
2) Someone has broken our game rules.

(his explanation is that Kody has been 'watching the power graph', although he insinuated that Kody's been doing a little more than that)

Really? This would envalidate my previous worries about Kody and hacking. And he seems such a nice guy.

**Corellion** · September 9, 2003, 17:02

No, he hasn't PMed me. I went to school with him during the past three years (along with Roksovokky (although 6 for him), but he seems to have disappeared), and we still keep in contact via MSN. This came up in a conversation of ours (I can't remember how). In any case, he wanted me to tell you all this, so I'm not sure what that means.

**Maniac** · September 9, 2003, 17:24

Wow I didn't know that. For some reason I assumed Voltaire was European. I thought he had an EU flag once.

Anyway, at least if Voltaire has been telling you of we knowing the pirates only the last three weeks, it is possible Kody might have figured things out by the power graph alone. After all it must look suspicious when the CyCon and Pirates shortly after each other become the most technologically advanced factions. It must also have raised questions seeing the Pirates switch to Wealth only one turn after us. But they can't deduce from that we would have a pact.

**Corellion** · September 9, 2003, 17:38

He did at one point have a European flag, but no, he's not European. He does not, however, throw things around lightly, although he is certainly not above misleading others into revealing information to him.

Announcement

PEACE diplomatic exchanges

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