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  • #61
    Drogue's proposal seems to be fine, however I am concerned that the Pirates will probably not accept it. Their strategy so far seems to be to act as Chiron's merchant fleet, gaining techs, EC, and whatnot by acting as a go-between for factions. They will therefore milk it for everything they've got... this advantage can't last for long. This means it is in their interests to keep commlinks from the other factions to themselves. I highly doubt we will get any commlinks from them without having to pay an extraordinary price.

    Now, as for their proposed deal...
    This was exactly what I was worrying about. They're expecting us to compensate them for everything they've had to do to get to the position they are in. I'm surprised they didn't ask us for money to pay off the loss of some gunship they lost in their exploration while trying to find the Angels, thus getting the trade set up. They are making it seem as though everything they are doing (especially in research) is for our sake, and that we should thus compensate them for it.

    In further negotiations with them, (tactfully, of course) remind them of the fact that we are not responsible for actions taken by their (incompetent) probe foils, unless they're undertaking a mission we specifically request them to take. Our pact was founded on openness in tech trading, and they are now trying to back out of it. They've probably just forgotten, it's understandable, so continue to remind them of the text of our pact. Quote it to them if necessary, and send it to every member of PEACE.

    Something tells me we're going to have to go through something like this with every proposed tech. I suggest that our best strategy to level the playing field is to get other factions' commlinks. We can't count on PEACE to give them to us, and it will probably be difficult getting Doc: Flex... they'll think of it as hostile. Our best strategy, therefore, is to get that Unity Chopper. Don't let PEACE know we have it, and let's go exploring.
    Comrade Corellion, Secretary of Science and Social Engineering for the Human Hive in the Alpha Centauri Police State Game (ACPSG).
    Function Corelli Omega-9, Internal Affairs Function (Terms 110, 101, 100, 011, and 010) and Advisor on Foreign Affairs (Term 001) for the Cybernetic Consciousness in the Alpha Centauri Democracy Team Game (ACDTG).
    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.

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    • #62
      I agree completely with Corellion We want Doc Flex though. If they're going to milk us, let's get an impact foil and see how much we can milk them
      Smile
      For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
      But he would think of something

      "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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      • #63
        Last edited by Googlie; October 14, 2003, 12:44.

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        • #64
          True, but let's not hand the information to them on a platter. Let them figure out on their own.
          Comrade Corellion, Secretary of Science and Social Engineering for the Human Hive in the Alpha Centauri Police State Game (ACPSG).
          Function Corelli Omega-9, Internal Affairs Function (Terms 110, 101, 100, 011, and 010) and Advisor on Foreign Affairs (Term 001) for the Cybernetic Consciousness in the Alpha Centauri Democracy Team Game (ACDTG).
          The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.

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          • #65
            You're a brilliant External Affairs Function, Drogue.

            I'm surprised they didn't ask us for money to pay off the loss of some gunship they lost in their exploration while trying to find the Angels


            Btw, I agree that that Unity scout chopper could form a very valuable asset. The problem is I don't know in which base we could build a probe team to mind control it (thus suggestions are welcome!). All our bases have nutrient bonuses in their radius, meaning they'll riot right away if we build anything else than colony pods all the time. A real luxury problem...
            If we would mind control the chopper, we need cash to do so. This is another reason why I am very reluctant to give more than 25-30 ec to the Pirates. IMHO exploration with that chopper could result in more advantages than having crawlers a few years earlier.
            Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
            Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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            • #66
              I disagree with the exploration. It's important, but crawlers can make our energy/mins rise enough we can grow (with use of Psych) and we can produce much quicker. I'd like the chopper, but won't it disappear next turn? I'll have to have a look at the turn and see if I can think of anything.

              And thanks for the compliment Haven't got a reply yet, even though JDM and Herc were online (or so I thought)
              Smile
              For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
              But he would think of something

              "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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              • #67
                I'd like the chopper, but won't it disappear next turn?
                It's hanging there a few turns already, since MY 2123 IIRC. And there's nothing that shows it has any intention of leaving. Probably some AI glitch. :shrugs:
                Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                • #68
                  Isn't it killing itself then? Like losing petrol after every turn?
                  Smile
                  For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                  But he would think of something

                  "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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                  • #69
                    The AI cheats on that apparently. The choppers even repaired itself from 30% damage to 20% damage while it was hanging there. A similar thing is that the AI can keep needlejets indefinitely in air without crashing. Most of the time very annoying, but now we can profit from it.
                    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                    • #70
                      Received from Herc:
                      Hi Drogue ( External Affairs function) and Mani Alpha 3.(Prime function

                      ( I have been trying to get on apolyton to see reaction of fellow
                      pirates to the Cycon revised proposal but tonight is particularly
                      slow). I presume the PMs part 1 and Part 2 were as in your email.

                      My initial reaction based on own internal discussions previous, is that
                      the deal is off.

                      I will be playing our 2127 turn to completition within the slight time
                      extension allowed. There are some issues within the pirates we have to
                      reach conclusions on such as, switching our own research to Ind Auto,
                      perhaps, though ethical calc has its attractions. The direction of our
                      probe units etc.

                      As a consequence of this failure to reach a deal we will not be
                      acquiring Ind Base from DJ (we don't need or want it) and we will not be
                      requiring Biogenetics from you.. So your HGP is safe.

                      I only hope your faction has somehow overlooked the fact that the Hive
                      and the Drones already have Ind Auto and that the failure to take the
                      opportunity to 'leap frog' to this tech by us, will set us both back
                      considerably.

                      Can I just say finally, we are not trying to exact any anything extra as
                      such;.we were trying to a fair deal and recognition of the efforts and
                      risks we are undertaking.

                      We were hoping to save both of us some considerable years research,
                      while the other factions edged ahead. But so be it.


                      yours
                      Cap'n Hercules
                      Have replied, to try and save the deal (we neeed Ind Auto ) and to try to convey our disapointment at their actions and diplomacy.
                      I am sorry if the deal is off. We were hoping to gain that advantage too.
                      We really want to make a deal. But to be asked that you wish an extra tech
                      and money, vastly more than we can afford, and skewing the deal, we have
                      little choice. We could possible offer an extra tech, or maybe a little
                      more money, as we wish to make this deal. You are pact brothers, going
                      against what was written when we signed the pact - a tech for a tech, that
                      was what Flubber insisted on your behalf. We are willing to go further and
                      offer sweeteners, and yet you still turn it down? We wish to make this
                      deal, and we wish for us both to gain, and we are trying to offer extra to
                      make sure this happens. I am sorry if this is not mutual.

                      - A rather discouraged Drogue
                      I think if it doesn't work, it will be war. LEt us get Doc Flex and Impact weapons, and launch 'Plan B' To be honest, with the Drones and Hive ahead of us on Tech, I don't see another other way to win this than taking our a faction and gaining bases. PEACE don't even have synthmetal
                      Smile
                      For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                      But he would think of something

                      "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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                      • #71
                        Well personally I'm not willing to give an extra tech (giving Lasers to hostile Pirates?), so as far as I'm concerned the deal's off. As for Impact and Doc:Flex, perhaps we should still aim for IndAut first, and then go for those two techs. After all, a military apparatus works best with a good economy supporting it.

                        Anyway, I only hope they would be willing to trade IndEco for something, even if we won't trade for IndBase...
                        Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                        Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                        • #72
                          ...tactically this failed trade won`t do us much good. we will lose our only link to other faction`s and will upset a faction that control the seas (and that in a island map)...i dont say start begging. but i propose that the main defense councel change pirates-status from pact-brothers to possible-threat. i really dont trust them any more.

                          P.S. the only way to get this deal is to talk to flubber. as soon as possible maybe he can change pirates opion.
                          Bunnies!
                          Welcome to the DBTSverse!
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                          • #73
                            The direction of our probe units
                            Is it just me, or does this sound like a threat to you guys too?
                            Comrade Corellion, Secretary of Science and Social Engineering for the Human Hive in the Alpha Centauri Police State Game (ACPSG).
                            Function Corelli Omega-9, Internal Affairs Function (Terms 110, 101, 100, 011, and 010) and Advisor on Foreign Affairs (Term 001) for the Cybernetic Consciousness in the Alpha Centauri Democracy Team Game (ACDTG).
                            The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.

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                            • #74
                              Wow. I hadn't noticed that yet. Indeed. That doesn't sound good. But there's not much we can do about it. It would cost enormous amounts of minerals to probe defend all our sea bases. I doubt we can afford it in this stage of the game.
                              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                              • #75
                                No, but we can begin the process of fortifying all our bases. We've probably been too lax about that so far. At the very least, let's minimise the damage they can do.
                                Comrade Corellion, Secretary of Science and Social Engineering for the Human Hive in the Alpha Centauri Police State Game (ACPSG).
                                Function Corelli Omega-9, Internal Affairs Function (Terms 110, 101, 100, 011, and 010) and Advisor on Foreign Affairs (Term 001) for the Cybernetic Consciousness in the Alpha Centauri Democracy Team Game (ACDTG).
                                The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.

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