CCCP's Workshop.

[Pandemoniak]

So you cant make the difference between a Police State and a Democracy ?

[Maniac]

Just as bad/good.

[Pandemoniak]

Oh, I guess you would prefer policemen behind everyone to watch and sever instead of messengers properly elected by the people to serve the people ?

[Maniac]

Because there isn't any control whether they are carrying the right message. They could just tell what they want to the producers.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by Schinkenjoe
The inspectors sent around to see what is neede are the real dominators of it all. This people could fix what you need and it needn´t be legitimated democratically at all.

How can you blame them ? they're just messengers !
They come to your home, write down and carry the message to the industry, what powers do they have ?

[Hercules]

I am with you on this

[Schinkenjoe]

The inspectors sent around to see what is neede are the real dominators of it all. This people could fix what you need and it needn´t be legitimated democratically at all.
And if there would be somebody, who controls them, just this one would be the dominator.
I want free acces to all means of production.
That would imply we would have enough of those. But we haven´t.
The agenda for any planned economy must be to provide the means as fast and as secure as possible.
I´d like democratic polling about how to achieve this. I think the actual system is like that.


What about changing our constitution as we go to other economics and states ? Would be pretty much work. ( Who does it ? ) The roleplaying was fine !! But how to decide who owns what in Free Market ?
Or who becomes dictator in Police State resp Prophet in Fundi ? (ok the last one´s Crisler )

If we got enough cities and there isn´t any danger any more - how abot giving every citizen - who wants - his own city, so he can control the producement and the units suported by it. The others who think that´s too much work can live in the cities of the generalness and poll about general questions like war or peace, Expansion, ... .
I would love to have my own city.

[Main_Brain]

to 2) Economics do

[GeneralTacticus]

Well there is always to go around, since this production has been planned, the production is always whats needed since the whole thing is to produce what is needed.

1) Just because you plan to produce enough doesn't mean you will.

2) Who decides how much is enough anyway?

[Maniac]

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Maniac
Just wanting to build 1000 factories to get the goods produced doesn't mean they will actually all be built in one year. So what indeed if there's not enough to go around?

Are we talking necessities or optional consumption? "1000 factories" implies optional consumption, certainly. In general, if there isn't enough to go around corruption is a likely culprit (reflected as an efficiency hit). At that point peoples rights are infringed by crime and not policy.
A big question is being raised here as to how "rights" are defined. Obviously, I militate against ownership of property as the primary determinant of rights to access resources. If corruption is starving a population, it is likely disempowerment has so frayed the moral fibre that a dark age is nigh, not because land-lords aren't getting a fair shake.
Both corruption and the "someday I'll be rich by winning the lottery or by entertaining the masses" mindset of the working poor are issues which are parallel to our socioeconomic choices. From here 'til kingdome come, a planned economy will open the door to corruption and a free-market economy will enslave the under-educated with false dreams. With no simple answers, we ought to keep pushing for Eudaimonia- if only by making such a dream less false day by day through hard work and moral behavior.

[Maniac]

Just wanting to build 1000 factories to get the goods produced doesn't mean they will actually all be built in one year. So what indeed if there's not enough to go around?

[Pandemoniak]

Well there is always to go around, since this production has been planned, the production is always whats needed since the whole thing is to produce what is needed.

[GeneralTacticus]

But on what basis is produce redistributed? What if there isn't enough to go around?

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Pande: But who does the planning? Somebody has to. And that means the planners are effectively telling everyone else what to produce and consume. Centralization != efficiency, nor does it equal fairness.

Special UN inspectors are sent throughout our faction territory and notes all that is needed throughout the faction. Then, to each according to his/her ability, people are told what to produce, in a very imaginative way : farmers produce nutrients, miners mine, shoemakers make shoes, etc... etc... Then the production is re-distributed according to the plan.
It means fairness, not because of the centralization, because of the redistribution. The centralization is just a process that we cant avoid to use -- for the moment, but maybe we'll find some day a perfect society that we could call Eudaimonia. This redistribution means a 10% save on every industry, and a +20% growth on every base. It's all shared and equal. Thats what I call fairness.