Recreation Commons - 007teenth Floor: The Isle of Doom

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Do you know what is the divine will of God?

Nope - but the leader is God's representative on Earth, so why should they have to listen to others? If we're at all consistent with Miriam's teachings, we have a fundamentalist system - we all follow God's messenger on Earth, who tells us God's will.

It hardly gives us an ethos of collective decision making. Or the ability to have parties. Indeed, even if we go against that and have parties, many ideologies (separation of church and state, a party FOR SCIENCE!, a party pushing utilitarian morals, etc.) would not be able to be represented, as they are catagorically denied by Miriam's faction ethos.


I'd look at it from the other angle. I'm presuming we're going to play with a collective decision making structure. We're going to have elections, parties, directors giving orders and an turnchat. This is our faction ethos. Whatever faction we play, this is how we're going to play it. Now, if we were to create a faction around this ethos, to represent us and what our ideologies are, it would be:
Collective decision making
Openness to all opinions
Anybody is able to stand for election/form a party/have their voice heard, whatever they stand for
Rule by all participants, on a one person/one vote system, while electing people with a specific responsibility for different areas

Sounds an awful lot like the Peacekeepers to me. It doesn't really sound like anyone else either. Now, if you want to create a faction - Apolyton - I'd be up for that. Something that embodies us and how we want the game to be run. However I'd be very against running any faction that disagrees with the ideologies above, as they're important for an enjoyable game and not massively restrictive.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
I believe I will make a resounding argument to demonstrate that "nondemocratic" factions can be the base for a demogame. I just need some time to finish it.

Well, not quite a resounding argument as I hoped but done

[Drogue]

/me smiles and thinks of someone special, downs his drink and relaxes for a little snooze.

*huggle*

[Method]

Originally posted by Drogue
Which means the biggest alcoholics of all time are:

[big list]

So basically, what you're telling me is that I need to start spamming here more?

[GeoModder]

Definitely! I really need some competent competition. Here have one for starters.

[binTravkin]

need some competent competition

Hey, am I not competent enough?
I've only 42 drinks less!

GeoModder 102
binTravkin 60

[binTravkin]

By the way, Drogue, PKs are not the only faction which can be roleplayed as you describe - Angels fit very nicely too.

Also, methinks you are trying to enforce a distinct pattern on how a demogame should look like.
You simplify everything to so used-to elections, collective decisions, bureaucracy.

Don't you think places like The Lords Believers have (or could have) it all, but it's called (can be called) different?

In fact any faction can do the things you describe, but the fact you yourself actually live in more PKish world inhibits you from spotting and understanding those things in those societies(factions)..

And Illu - superb work!

[binTravkin]

During the late twentieth and twenty first century, his creations managed to lead millions of believers to the dark path, eventually precipitating the Downfall. Disguised as civilization building games, the dark invention made men forget their families, leave their ovens running, forget to vote in election and turn to civophily. May the name of ___ _____ never be heard again!

Guess who?

Now, I noticed following things in this article:

- collective decision making
- elective system
- green party
- liberal/pacifist party
- lack of freedom in PKs
- science not being percieved as something evil
- police/secret service
- bureaucracy/corruption

Is it lacking anything major for a demogame?

[Micha]

*Arnold Schwarzenegger (in his interpretion of the Micha character ) approaches the bar...

"Your drink. Give it to me."

Although being completely naked, he doesn´t seem to draw more attention than usual.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I've only 42 drinks less!

n00b!

[Drogue]

Originally posted by binTravkin
By the way, Drogue, PKs are not the only faction which can be roleplayed as you describe - Angels fit very nicely too.

They do fit, that is true. I don't believe they give the team an ethos of collective decision making, but I do agree they're compatable. I think the PKs pretty much sum it up though.

I like the idea of creating our own faction - Apolyton tries to rule Planet!

Originally posted by binTravkin
Also, methinks you are trying to enforce a distinct pattern on how a demogame should look like.
You simplify everything to so used-to elections, collective decisions, bureaucracy.

Don't you think places like The Lords Believers have (or could have) it all, but it's called (can be called) different?

In fact any faction can do the things you describe, but the fact you yourself actually live in more PKish world inhibits you from spotting and understanding those things in those societies(factions)..

I am trying to enforce a distinct playstyle on the game. I don't think a democracy game works without us working as a team and making decisions by voting. If that isn't the consensus, then that's ok, but I wouldn't call it a democracy game.

Playing the Believers emphasises different characteristics, and I would argue our playstyle, the way we get people involved, would lead to far fewer attempts to get people involved, and fewer people playing.

I think we should decide how we want to play, and then create a faction with an ideology that reflects us, that reflects Apolyton.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by binTravkin
- liberal/pacifist party

How does pacifism work when our faction has a 25% attack bonus? That bonus is due to the war-like nature of the Peacekeepers.

Originally posted by binTravkin
- lack of freedom in PKs

Yeh, really. Freedom of information, rule by the people - complete lack of freedom.

Originally posted by binTravkin
- science not being percieved as something evil

Which is why they have the science penalty.

I could write an article about how the Believers murder everyone who disagrees with their religion, but that wouldn't invalidate them as a possible choice. What does, IMHO, is the fact that their set-in-stone ideologies doesn't fit in with the method we'll use to play the game - it doesn't fit in with a Democracy game. I don't deny the Believer's have a lot of potential RPing, and would be an different faction gameplay-wise, I just think they're inconsistent with playing as a team that emphasises everyone having input.

After seeing the lessening number of players as the game progresses, in every DG we've had, keeping people involved and emphasising a playstyle where we work as a team, we all have a say and see what comes out, it essential to keeping people involved in the game, and yet not emphasised by the Believers faction profile.

I'm not against being the Believer's just to be difficult, I just think trying to play a faction that doesn't fall so easily into a democracy game model will cause us not to play in the same style. I don't see what we gain at all from playing as the Believers, and I think we have a hell of a lot to lose. You all keep saying why other factions could work, but what makes them better? What makes it worth playing a faction that isn't about democracy, when we're playing a democracy game?

[Octavian X]

It could be that not everyone likes the idea of trying to roleplay to conform to one factional idealogy. I (at least vaguely remember) some comments that my idea for a leftist worker's party in the PSG was silly as it didn't really conform to the Hive's totalitarian agenda.

I really like the idea, then, of a distinct Apolytonian faction. It leaves us a lot of good backstory to be written and added as necessary (of how Benevolent Despot MarkG left Earth to form an empire of Civvers with too much time on their hands), a wider set of parties in the game (where people could still form their own pro-Believer fanatical religious beliefs, or a group set on totalitarian domination), and even perhaps a more diverse set of goals for actually playing the game to make it that much more interesting (since a lot of people here could beat the AI in a heartbeat).

[binTravkin]

Drogue, 2 things:

1.Do you really think that PKs (and maybe Angels) are the only ones who can work in a team?
2.Do you really think that whether a faction is a murderer and/or oppressor does depend completely on it's profile? (well maybe except Yang)

Why Believers can not make a real Kingdom of Heaven, where a group of competent people, The Conclave, make collective and proper decisions in the government, where people live simple lives and agressive bonuses like fanaticism bonus and the probe bonus are actually not properties of official propaganda or government policies, but the nature of the nation which does not understand how other people can live in such misguided and cruel factions they live..?

[binTravkin]

And furthermore, what makes you think that a democracy between the players of the game requires the same strict democracy in the faction profile?

We're not playing democracy anyway, we're playing oligarchy - a group of people decides everything, among that group there's democracy, but on lower levels, on citizen levels which are brought to us as tiny images of happy, content and angry faces, there may actually not be democracy, yet it wouldn't change anything in our play.