Civ V Player Wishlists

[Dinner]

I'd really like the game to be more complex especially the economic model but Sid's been dumbing the game down for a while now and has made it clear he wants a simple game rather then a complex one.

[Ming]

I would still like to see some kind of "patrol" command for sea and air units. I get really tired of sending planes out every turn to see if an invading fleet is coming. And I'm sick to death of having a line of ships out at sea in sentry mode only to have them "come awake" but show nothing since the ships had already passed and moved out of sight range.

[wodan11]

I'd really like the game to be more complex especially the economic model but Sid's been dumbing the game down for a while now and has made it clear he wants a simple game rather then a complex one.

That oversimplifies the case. (pun intended)

I think Firaxis wants a superficially simple game, easy to play and enjoy, yet complex to truly master because of nearly endless permutations and intricacies.

[wodan11]

One thing I'd like to see is a sense of terrain on the ocean. Since there aren't any relevant landmarks, you could simulate it with currents or winds. Ships would have a certain number of turns they could be at sea, and early ships would rely heavily on winds and currents to move. Certain regions could be very stormy and could prove impassible to early ships.

Right now they have the shallow ocean and the deep ocean, but that's not really how ancient people would have seen it. They would see seas in terms of their winds and currents and storms and other hazards. It would really bring a new dimension to early sea travel.

Hmm. Interesting idea. A good point, though seems to me that this extends to land as well. While weather per se isn't as much of a hazard while on land, and while the terrain itself doesn't really change under your feet as the sea does, there are other problems (especially to ancient peoples) on land. Even a simple forest or jungle was pretty much impassable to armies, as was hilly terrain and swamps. Remember how much attrition Hannibal suffered just walking his armies from Spain to Italy?

[SpencerH]

I would still like to see some kind of "patrol" command for sea and air units. I get really tired of sending planes out every turn to see if an invading fleet is coming. And I'm sick to death of having a line of ships out at sea in sentry mode only to have them "come awake" but show nothing since the ships had already passed and moved out of sight range.

[rah]

And why is there no explore option for spies or missionaries?

[Blaupanzer]

Because missionaries are on a mission! How can they explore when they are on a mission? Good thoughts, Rah, especially for spies.

[rah]

It's absence for spies has irritated me for years. The only reason I want it for missionaries is since I usually have tech trading off, alpha isn't exactly a priority so I end up using missionaries for exploring AI lands.

[Felch]

Hmm. Interesting idea. A good point, though seems to me that this extends to land as well. While weather per se isn't as much of a hazard while on land, and while the terrain itself doesn't really change under your feet as the sea does, there are other problems (especially to ancient peoples) on land. Even a simple forest or jungle was pretty much impassable to armies, as was hilly terrain and swamps. Remember how much attrition Hannibal suffered just walking his armies from Spain to Italy?

I think weather on land might be better represented through attrition of units passing through. At first just traveling anywhere would have a chance to chip away at your guys, and you'd need roads to reduce the time spent traveling and you'd need to avoid difficult terrain since it would have a higher rate of attrition. Successive medical or logistical technologies and social engineering would expand your reach further and into more inhospitable climates. That way swamps and jungles could serve as defensive barriers against invasion, since invading armies would reach your territory slightly weaker and worn out.

The trick with all of this is to make it as transparent and abstract as possible. I don't want to mess with supply lines, but I'll happily research a tech or build a wonder that reduces my units chance of taking hits during a desert crossing. The goal is to have fun, not to do spreadsheets.

[wodan11]

Sounds good to me, Felch!

[Ming]

Yeah... one of the problems with adding realistic factors is the amount of time required/complexity to deal with it.

I think supply lines are critical, especially after watching a 100 unit SOD go across around the world to attack somebody. I'm sure there is an easy way to deal with it... and something the AI could understand.

Weather is another factor... but it's dependent in many cases to the seasons... (as the Germans found out in the winter in Russia, and the spring mud with their heavy tanks) Since turns are based on multiple years early in the game, it's hard to build something like this in.

As pointed out... realism is great if it's functionable and realitively easy to work with... but anything that just becomes a tiresome exercise is nothing worth being in the game.

[Roman]

Yeah... one of the problems with adding realistic factors is the amount of time required/complexity to deal with it.

I think supply lines are critical, especially after watching a 100 unit SOD go across around the world to attack somebody. I'm sure there is an easy way to deal with it... and something the AI could understand.

How about this:

When ending a turn outside your borders, your units automatically have a penalty of 1 health point to represent the supply and logistics issues. Ending the turn on some terrains (e.g. desert, jungle, tundra, etc.) can increase the penalty to 2 health points or more (remember that most units appear to have 16 health points now, though some have 12).

Note: If we wanted to be less punishing, we could extend the no-penalty radius a certain number of tiles beyond one's borders.

Since health is now represented through soldier icons, it would be necessary to distinguish between this and the actual loss of health, so that health does not keep on declining (that might be realistic, but would be too prohibitive a penalty gameplay-wise, I think). Perhaps one, or the requisite number, of the soldier icons could turn red to show that they don't count in a battle.

There could be various ways to mitigate this. For example:

- Being on a road or railroad connected to one's civilization might mitigate or even eliminate the penalty.
- Having a 'supply unit' nearby (within a given radius) would eliminate the penalty even in terrain without roads/railroads. An early supply unit might be a supply wagon, while a modern one might be a truck. Ships could also act as supply units, hence, advancing along the coast would be desirable, like it was historically.
- Some units would count as explorers and these would be exempt from the supply/logistics penalties (alternatively, some might only mitigate them or be exempt on certain terrains).
- There could be promotions that could give the units 'explorer' or 'self-sufficient' status and mitigate or eliminate the supply/logistics penalties for them (again, this could potentially be limited by terrain).

I would propose that the health points/soldier icons made unavailable by supply issues automatically and immediately return to normal once the unit ends its turn in a tile that does not impose a supply penalty (within borders, on a home-connected road/railroad, next to a supply unit, etc.).

Something like the above, I think, would not be too onerous, but provide some level of logistics. It would still be possible to wage a campaign in the absence of any logistics, but it would not be as efficient.

[Roman]

Weather is another factor... but it's dependent in many cases to the seasons... (as the Germans found out in the winter in Russia, and the spring mud with their heavy tanks) Since turns are based on multiple years early in the game, it's hard to build something like this in.

Weather and seasons are probably too micro-scale to simulate in the main game, but for reasons you point out, they could be important for scenarios - eg. a WWII scenario. It would probably be possible to simulate the effects of weather in scenarios using the supply system outline above - on certain turns (e.g. winter turns), the supply penalties increase. Hmm, this could even simulate attrition from partisans/resistance. Actually guerrilla warfare/partisan resistance is something I would love to see in the main game.

[Theben]

Weather would likely be reduced to an event.

As for supply lines, I'd add that warriors and scouts be immune to their effects.

[Roman]

Weather would likely be reduced to an event.

As for supply lines, I'd add that warriors and scouts be immune to their effects.

Yeah, scouts would surely have 'explorer' status under my scheme. A case could be made for warriors having it too.