Announcement

**BigFurryMonster** · May 16, 2003, 13:41

I am currently doing some extensive testing on this subject.

The tests I do are:

X Warriors -vs- Y Warriors (to determine the ratios)
X Spearmen -vs- Y Warriors
X Archers -vs- Y Warriors (these two are used to compute the effect of attack and defense)
X Jag Warriors -vs- Y Warriors (to compute the effect of movement points)
X Vet Warriors -vs- Y Reg Warriors (to compute the effect of combat experience)

A test should be done with wounded units, but that is rather difficult to set up.
I already found out that non-attacking units (workers, settlers, ...) have no impact on Military Strength.

From Test 1, I get a few different results than quoted above. Maybe we used different Patches.
For example, I get:
X = 10, Y = 8, Average
X = 10, Y = 13, Weak

From Test 1, I get:

0% <= Relative Army Strength < 80% : Weak
80% <= Relative Army Strength <= 125% : Average
125% < Relative Army Strength : Stronger

The Relative Army Strength is only calculated from the number of warriors, of course.
From Tests 2 and 3, I get roughly the following result:

Value of Warrior = 1 (assumed)
Value of Spearman = 1.52
Value of Archer = 1.57

edit: update below

Army Strength = Sum (Unit Values)

I'll keep you posted..!

**Jaybe** · May 16, 2003, 14:41

BFM, you could test for Conscript-Elite units instead of for damaged units. Also, could you please investigate fast units to see if they have any affect?

**badams52** · May 16, 2003, 23:26

go BFM! It will be great to see your results

**BigFurryMonster** · May 17, 2003, 08:13

More test results coming in:

From Test 3:
(update) 1 Archer = 1.60 Warrior.
From Test 4:
1 Jaguar Warrior = 1 Warrior.
==> Movement points have no effect on Unit Value.

Hypothesis:

Unit Value = 1 + 0.60 * (Attack Value - 1) + 0.52 * (Defense Value - 1)

...testing will continue...

(update) Formula correction on next page.

**BigFurryMonster** · May 17, 2003, 09:29

From Test 5:
1 Vet Warrior = 1.45 Warrior Updated to 1.33 in a later test!

I noticed one strange thing here, though:

6 Vet Warriors -vs- 7 Reg Warriors: Average
18 Vet Warriors -vs- 21 Reg Warriors: Strong

...so, tripling the units on both sides gives a different result..!

update: this can be accounted for by the extra Army Support Cost caused by the greater increase in Reg Warriors (see next page)

**BigFurryMonster** · May 17, 2003, 09:32

Next tests coming up:

...
...
...
...
...
X Hoplites -vs- Y Warriors (to test the effect of the Defense Value)
X Bowmen -vs- Y Warriors (to test the combined effect of the Attack and Defense Values)
X Vet Spearmen -vs- Y Reg Warriors (to test the combined effect of Experience and the Defense Value)

**Nor Me** · May 17, 2003, 11:27

I did a short test on this closer to when this thread first came up. I remember that archers were worth more than spearmen and didn't come up with enough detail.

But I ruled out cost as a factor.

**nbarclay** · May 17, 2003, 18:04

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
I noticed one strange thing here, though:

6 Vet Warriors -vs- 7 Reg Warriors: Average
18 Vet Warriors -vs- 21 Reg Warriors: Strong

...so, tripling the units on both sides gives a different result..!

I wonder if there's some kind of rounding anomaly involved.

**E_T** · May 17, 2003, 19:50

BFM, how many warriors did you use for the Y (what your testing against)? I would use 100 (or even 1000), as that will help you to define your formula abit more.

No matter what, good job

E_T

**Panzer32** · May 17, 2003, 22:52

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
I noticed one strange thing here, though:

6 Vet Warriors -vs- 7 Reg Warriors: Average
18 Vet Warriors -vs- 21 Reg Warriors: Strong

...so, tripling the units on both sides gives a different result..!

Maybe the formula is much simpler than we think, and it does not take into account the ratio. Possibly it thinks "only one more warrior, thats average. Three more warriors, thats strong!!"

Of course, this would be disapointing if it were found to be the case; although we need to consider all of the possibilities.

**E_T** · May 17, 2003, 23:32

BFM, can you check to see how bombardment units effect this score?

E_T

**Panag** · May 18, 2003, 06:48

hi ,

has anyone been here to take a look , .....

>>>>>> http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~soren/

have a nice day

**bongo** · May 19, 2003, 05:38

Haven't done any tests but from experience it looks like the AI values Attack higher than Defence and fast units over slow ones. A large army of fast attackers is often enough to dicourage the AI from declaring war.

**BigFurryMonster** · May 19, 2003, 06:51

Originally posted by nbarclay
I wonder if there's some kind of rounding anomaly involved.

Very probable.

This is a picture the test method I used. For Test 1:

The dots are "test points". They give either Strong, Average or Weak as a result. I drew the lines in such a way that all Strong points are in the lower-left part, the Weak points are in the upper-right part, and the Average points are in the middle.

The lines happened to correspond to 125% and 80% relative army strength, respectively.

For the other tests, assuming the 125% and 80% remain constant, I multiply one of the axes of the graphs by a number N.
This N needs to be tuned by trial-and-error to get all the test points in the correct area. The slopes of the lines change accordingly (actually, the slopes of the lines remain mathematically constant, but the scale of the graph changes).

For example, I found N = 1.60 for Archers -vs- Warriors: I have to multiply the vertical axis (representing the number of Archers) by 1.60 to get it right. This works pretty well.

I tested no further than, say, 15 -vs- 20 units. But still, it gives a pretty good boundary for the three areas.

Panag - I couldn't find info relating to this subject on the site you mention. Can you direct me to it, if it is present?

**BigFurryMonster** · May 19, 2003, 06:57

Originally posted by E_T
BFM, can you check to see how bombardment units effect this score?

Included!

...
...
...
...
...
X Hoplites -vs- Y Warriors (to test the effect of the Defense Value)
X Bowmen -vs- Y Warriors (to test the combined effect of the Attack and Defense Values)
X Vet Spearmen -vs- Y Reg Warriors (to test the combined effect of Experience and the Defense Value)
X Warriors + Z Catapults -vs- Y Warriors (to test the effect of Bombardment Units)

Testing will resume on Tuesday. Please wear your safety helmet at all times when in the area.

Announcement

F3 Strong/Average/Weak

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