F3 Strong/Average/Weak

[BigFurryMonster]

Again, correct. Do you feel like running some tests...?

[nbarclay]

A couple of my own experiments:

1) Catapults seem to be worth somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of a regular warrior in the strength calculations, possibly exactly 1/4 with the variation I saw accounted for by rounding error.

2) For purposes of strength calculations, what counts seems to be the current number of hit points remaining. Hit points units have lost due to damage but could get back if they healed seem to be irrelevant.

[DaveMcW]

Catapult/Warrior
119/40 = Weak
120/40 = Average

Catapult = 0.27 Warriors


Warrior/20-Bombard-Catapult
42/40 = Weak
43/40 = Average

20-Bombard-Catapult = 1.3 Warriors


Warrior/100-Bombard-Catapult
106/20 = Weak
107/20 = Average

100-Bombard-Catapult = 6.6 Warriors


So the factor for bombard is:
Bombard / 15


I'm going to bed, I'll let someone else test firepower.
It might be better to multiply everything by 3, which gives an integer for all non-UUs and a nice decimal for catapults.

[BigFurryMonster]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Catapult/Warrior
119/40 = Weak
120/40 = Average

Hold on there. Did you have 30 cities to avoid paying Army Support Cost? Did the other civ have 10?

(this holds for Despotism - with Monarchy, you might need more)

[DaveMcW]

This is in 4000BC. You have no upkeep if you have no cities.

[BigFurryMonster]

I actually got:

• 1 Catapult = 0.2667 Warriors (= 4/15)

This agrees with your Bombard factor. After some more testing, I updated the formula for the Bombard value:

Unit Strength =

(Hitpoints / 3) *
(0.6 * Attack Value + 0.4 * Defense Value + Bombard Strength Value / 15) *
(1.01 if UU and CivSpecificAbilitiesOn)

Army Strength =

Sum (Unit Strengths) * (Factor depending on ArmySupportCost)

Units with no hitpoints (e.g. Catapults) are assumed to have 3 hitpoints for this calculation.

No effect have:

• "Naval" ability
• Rate of Fire Value
• Movement Value
• Bombard Range Value

[Tiberius]

Great work!

Btw, are you sure the formula is correct for calculating strength of bombardment units? I mean, AFAIK artillery-type units don't have hitpoints, so (Hitpoints / 3) and thus the value of any bomb. unit's strength would always be 0

I suppose there are actually two different formulas, one for "normal" A/D units and one for artillery-type units. Either that or bombardment artilery-type units are always calculated as having hitpoints=3 (for the sake of calculating the unit's strength only).

Edit: it must be the second alternative, to make it possible to calculate the strength of ships with bomb. capabilities, who have both hitpoints and bomb. strength value.

[BigFurryMonster]

You're correct. I added your "second assumption".

[bongo]

*bump*

Now, why isn't this thread included in the 'Must read' section?

It may of course be because the formula isn't quite finished yet.

[BigFurryMonster]

Because no one thought of doing that before.

The formula may or may not be finished - not everything has been tested, but it is pretty close.

[bongo]

Only thing left is to find out how big that 'unitupkeepfactor' is.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by nbarclay


Five hitpoints, unless one of the first two warriors destroys it, since its second victory would be guaranteed to get the tank promoted to elite. And "definitely" may be pushing it. 17x4 = 68, while 8x5=40. So if odds correspond roughly to those multiples (and I'm not sure to what extent they do), the tank probably has a chance at fending off all seventeen. Of course if the tank is fortified...

And then with the strong possibilty that when your tank gets redlined it retreats, the rest of the warriors won't be able to reach it!

[vmxa1]

I used DES to run 100 trials and the tank won only 10 times without bonuses. Given fort and hillls it got to almost dead even.

Of course in the game anything can happen, but in CivIII it is unlikely that any unit will win between 68-85 rounds. Maybe 89 counting 4 hp's for the tank.

[bongo]

Whats DES? Some sort of a combat calculator?

Did some 'real' testing with a hotseat game btw, so far the results indicate that the UU factor is a bit low(my results suggest it should be around 1.03 rather than 1.01)

[vmxa1]

Yes, I got it either here or CFC in the utility section.