F3 Strong/Average/Weak

[Manya]

the advisors aren't good, they tell you what's obvious

[badams52]

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre

I liked the video animated advisors of CIV 2, with Elvis and Schwartzkopf look-a-likes. They never got boring.

"You're letting our crack troops go to waste, sir. Let's go bonk some heads."

"All the world marvels at our superior intellect, sire."

Can't believe I still have some of them memorized.

[Dis]

they ruled!

oh how I missed them

[player1]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
I did a *very* quick test in debug mode.

10 warriors / 8 warriors = Stronger
10 warriors / 9 warriors = Average
10 warriors / 13 warriors = Average
10 warriors / 14 warriors = Weaker

10 warriors / 1 tank = Weaker
11 warriors / 1 tank = Average
16 warriors / 1 tank = Average
17 warriors / 1 tank = Stronger

Actually those 17 Warriors could definety take out enemy Tank.
He has 8 defense, but he still has just 4hps.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by player1


Actually those 17 Warriors could definety take out enemy Tank.
He has 8 defense, but he still has just 4hps.

Five hitpoints, unless one of the first two warriors destroys it, since its second victory would be guaranteed to get the tank promoted to elite. And "definitely" may be pushing it. 17x4 = 68, while 8x5=40. So if odds correspond roughly to those multiples (and I'm not sure to what extent they do), the tank probably has a chance at fending off all seventeen. Of course if the tank is fortified...

[yxhuvud]

Someone mentioned that it seems like it favors offensive units over defensive. I would say there isn't enough evidence to decide, since no defensive units have been tested.

[badams52]

Taking a look at Zachriel's civ combat simulator, I ran the numbers regarding a veterab tank on flat land vs. 17 veteran attacking warriors and it isn't very close. I ran 1000 simulations and the 17 warriors won around 90% of the time and on average had 8 survivors. When fortified, the victory drops to 80%. Fortified in a city drops it further to 60%.

For comparison sake, 10 veteran warriors against a veteran tank on flatland not fortified wins 60% of the time. So I would suggest that the weak/average/strong guy doesn't have much of a clue as to who is truly stronger.

[Dominae]

Ah, so we should be saving up on those Warriors to take out Tanks in the late Industrial? Now there's a strategy I would never have figured out myself...




Dominae

[minke19104]

Do they consider nukes?? What if I have little or no military other than a huge reseves of nukes?

I'd like to see if any AI would dare to attack me....

[Arrian]

Does the game take hitpoints into account?

Would the weak, average, strong rating change if the same warriors v. tank test was done, but the warriors were made regulars & the tank elite? Would that change the numbers? It should.

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

We should test an hypothetical 4/4/4 unit against a variety of other units to see if movement points, nukes, etc. change something in how all of this is counted...

--Kon--

[Brizey]

Don't forget artillery.

My guess is the algorithm is very simple, probably a directly calculated formula.

Zach's combat simulator does not take into account defender retreat.

Woops. I had posted an old version of my odds calculator. I'll look for the latest.

[Brizey]

Here is the correct calculator.

And here is the results for a warrior attacking a fortified tank on grasslands (both regular):


Attacker Wins:

Percentage Chance: 0.20%
Defender Hit Points Left:
5 0.00%
4 0.00%
3 0.02%
2 0.04%
1 0.14%


Defender Wins:

Percentage Chance: 98.93%
Attacker Hit Points Left:
5 0.00%
4 0.00%
3 79.80%
2 17.35%
1 1.78%


Attacker Retreats:

Percentage Chance: 0.00%
Defender Hit Points Left:
5 0.00%
4 0.00%
3 0.00%
2 0.00%
1 0.00%


Defender Retreats:

Percentage Chance: 0.87%
Attacker Hit Points Left:
5 0.00%
4 0.00%
3 0.26%
2 0.61%
1 0.00%

So, the pertinent thing here is that a little more than 17% of the time, the warrior does at least one hp of damage. Eventually, with enough warriors, the tank will bite it.

[Brizey]

Whoops. I reversed who had hit points left in the first two data groups.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Brizey
Zach's combat simulator does not take into account defender retreat.

Yes, I wondered about that as well, but would you be able to simulate multiple warriors attacking? I think that is more pertinent to our current discussion.