Can a case be made for a Ukrainian civ for a Europe map?

[Underseer]

Originally posted by Azazel

neither is chinese, but we still use them as a single civilization.

The Chinese are possibly the worst example you could've stated for your argument. Americans, Ottomans, etc. would've been better, but of all the civs in the game, the Chinese are probably the most culturally similar to their ancient counterparts.

[Az]

Their culture had a few profound changes. Not as much as Europe in the last half of a millenium, but everything moves fast in the last 500 years. .

Besides, noone calls the turks ottomans now.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Azazel

neither is chinese, but we still use them as a single civilization.

What's your point here? That's what I ment

[Az]

The point was that we are not talking about culture, but about nationality as well.

Byzantines didn't see themselves as Romans, although Bizantium considered itself to be the successor or Rome.

[Heresson]

You are completely wrong. They considered themselves Romans. It was only Plethon that started changing that,
and it was not so long before the fall of the Empire.
They called themselves Romans and considered themselves Romans, not Greeks or "Byzantines"

[Az]

right, that's why the spoken language was greek!

[Heresson]

But, if You don't know that, they called it "Roman".
Up to today modern Greek is called by Greeks Roman or something, I believe (Any Greek here, tell exactly what I mean).

[Az]

[Heresson]

Well excuse me, but that's not a point of discussion. You are just wrong.

[Az]

Gawd, you're tough:

a) They spoke greek, right? the fact they called it 'Roman' wouldn't matter, just as calling a new ICBM with multiple warheards "Happy Butterfly" won't change the fact that it is a WMD.
b) A revalation on the whole topic: I am pretty much spamming. I couldn't care less about the topic. They should make a Aztec civ in an eastern europe scenario for all I care. I don't give a **** about it. It's just a ****ing scenario anyway. If someone wants top place ****ing aliens there, be my ****ing guest. I don't ****ing give a damn.

[Heresson]

Dear Azzie,
they spoke "Roman" language...
That it was a language earlier used by Greeks, it doesn't matter, as there were no "Greeks" then, and there were no other Romans.
That Frenchmen don't speak Frankish anymore doesn't mean they can't claim themselves to be descendants of the Franks. Actually they like to be Gauls better, but that's another case.

Oh, yes, you're right when it comes to the second part. But why do You need all those *'s to say that?

[Az]

That it was a language earlier used by Greeks, it doesn't matter, as there were no "Greeks" then, and there were no other Romans

there were no greeks? rrrrright.

Oh, whatever.

[XarXo]

MMM, what is the relation with Byzance and Ukrania? Black Sea?

(Ok ok, the relation is: Could a new civ be generated after another, or is simply is an evolution?).

This is, is Ukrania a Civ candidate or should be included in "Russia"?

My answer: In Russia? Yes, the day that they call themselves "Ruthenians".

[Az]

[XarXo]

I agree