Can a case be made for a Ukrainian civ for a Europe map?

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by XarXo
Slavs... This sounds like call to all northern mediterraneans as "Romance". There's something bigger than a language between these countries? The idea of "great slavia" was used by russian imperialism in the XX century.

Could be a psychological thing. You know, the sort that the Russians and Belarusians feel with great fervour and passion, but no one else (Poland, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, etc) shares.

Btw, Poland is Catholic. Romania is Orthodox. I'm sure that messes up the "Slavia" idea.

[Serb]

Originally posted by ranskaldan


Could be a psychological thing. You know, the sort that the Russians and Belarusians feel with great fervour and passion, but no one else (Poland, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, etc) shares.

Btw, Poland is Catholic. Romania is Orthodox. I'm sure that messes up the "Slavia" idea.

All others are Orthodox too. Poland is the only "traitor of Slavic brotherhood". Heresson

*waiting for a lecture how Bulgarians are actually Catholics*

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Serb


All others are Orthodox too. Poland is the only "traitor of Slavic brotherhood". Heresson

*waiting for a lecture how Bulgarians are actually Catholics*

mmm
Czechs? Slovaks?

[Serb]

[Heresson]

I can't see that picture, Serb.

North Luzyczans are protestant and South Luzyczans are catholics (or the other way round ), Czechs are catholics and atheists, Slovakians are catholics, Slovenians are catholics, Croatians are catholic, Bosnians are muslimsUkrainians and Byelorussians used to be Greek-Catholic but they were forced to orthodox faith. Still, west of Ukraine came back to greek-catholic church. Bulgaria and Serbia occasionally preferred to stay under Rome's supremacy than under Cople's.
It's You with your undemocratical tradition (except for Novogrod's tradition, I'm just reading a book about this state), You are the trators of Slavs.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
I can't see that picture, Serb.

Are you blind?

North Luzyczans are protestant and South Luzyczans are catholics (or the other way round ), Czechs are catholics and atheists, Slovakians are catholics, Slovenians are catholics, Croatians are catholic, Bosnians are muslimsUkrainians and Byelorussians used to be Greek-Catholic but they were forced to orthodox faith. Still, west of Ukraine came back to greek-catholic church. Bulgaria and Serbia occasionally preferred to stay under Rome's supremacy than under Cople's.

A fascinating lecture. Somehow I've predicted that you'll show up with crap of this kind.

You are the trators of Slavs.

We are true Slavs, you are cheap pro-Western fake.

[Az]

Whoa, spam-flame thread.

Serb: Russia is based on the fusion of the Scandinavian travellers and invaders, that built small cities along the large rivers. Russians are both slavs and scandinavians, as well as some behind the Ural tribes, like the scythians, that IIRC weren't slavs.

This is not a contradiction. Just like the spanish people(s) have both the traditions of the Canaanite colonies, the Latin rule of Rome, and the German and Muslim invaders. They're a mix, a fusion, as are all other nations on earth. This is the truth.

The population of England ( not britain, that obviously is mostly celtic, with wales, and scotland, England ) has still very strong celtic roots. For example the family name owen. Also, The country has been profoundly changed by the invaders from Britanny, which were Normans, that had also close ties to the central power in Paris.

All nations are like this. Even the Japanese that mostly think of as ethnically 'pure' have lost of Chinese and Korean genetic lines, as well as lines from the ancestoral inhabitants of the Isles.

Herresson: simple flames, no imagination whatsoever.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Azazel
Whoa, spam-flame thread.

Serb: Russia is based on the fusion of the Scandinavian travellers and invaders, that built small cities along the large rivers. Russians are both slavs and scandinavians, as well as some behind the Ural tribes, like the scythians, that IIRC weren't slavs.

Sure you rememeber correctly because:
1) Scythians (I guess you mean "Skify" esli na Russkom) weren't from "behind Ural", because...
2) Scythians it's Greek word for tribes which populated modern Ukraine and nearby territories. (That's how Aristotel determinated them, iirc)

Once again if what you've said is true, then why we don't speak on Scandinavian languge today? Or at least on some kind of mix Scandinavian and Slavic language? Why I can (particialy, not entire text, but at least the meaning) understand what peoples from other Slavic countries are saying and don't understand a single Norge or Sweden word f.e.?

All nations are like this. Even the Japanese that mostly think of as ethnically 'pure' have lost of Chinese and Korean genetic lines, as well as lines from the ancestoral inhabitants of the Isles.

I komu ty eto govorish? Moya rodnaya babka- 100% Ukrainka, praded Belorus a sam ya 100% Russkii
Just don't tell to anybody, I just discovered it myself.

[Az]

1) Scythians (I guess you mean "Skify" esli na Russkom) weren't from "behind Ural", because...
2) Scythians it's Greek word for tribes which populated modern Ukraine and nearby territories. (That's how Aristotel determinated them, iirc)

did he say: "the people that live in the place where one day will exist a corrupt country named Ukraine"?
or did he say "the people that live... umm... somewhere north to our colony of Hersoness." ?

IIRC, the Scythians lived at the late ancient era around the Urals. You know, everyone lived a bit to the east then. The Slovens are from around Leningrad, actuailly (!).

Once again if what you've said is true, then why we don't speak on Scandinavian languge today? Or at least on some kind of mix Scandinavian and Slavic language? Why I can (particialy, not entire text, but at least the meaning) understand what peoples from other Slavic countries are saying and don't understand a single Norge or Sweden word f.e.?

because the Scandinavians while the scandinavians were the rulers, the creators of states, the bulk of the population was Slavic tribes. just like the first christian Kingdoms of France were established by the franks, the people call themselves french, yet the talk a Latin language, since most of the people were there from the time of Roman rule. In England, the amount of Germans that arrived to establish Anglia was much larger, AND they ruled the land.

[Heresson]

Herresson: simple flames, no imagination whatsoever.

You're not objective.

[Az]

I am sure that you make a much better judge of yourself.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Azazel

did he say: "the people that live in the place where one day will exist a corrupt country named Ukraine"?
or did he say "the people that live... umm... somewhere north to our colony of Hersoness." ?

IIRC, the Scythians lived at the late ancient era around the Urals. You know, everyone lived a bit to the east then. The Slovens are from around Leningrad, actuailly (!).

I mean that "Scythians" was common Greek word for MANY tribes including tribes which later were called Slavs. I mean that there was no such nationality as "Scythian".

because the Scandinavians while the scandinavians were the rulers, the creators of states, the bulk of the population was Slavic tribes. just like the first christian Kingdoms of France were established by the franks, the people call themselves french, yet the talk a Latin language, since most of the people were there from the time of Roman rule. In England, the amount of Germans that arrived to establish Anglia was much larger, AND they ruled the land.

Then explain to me please how in the hell Russians are- "both slavs and scandinavians" if " the bulk of the population was Slavic tribes"?

[Az]

Then explain to me please how in the hell Russians are- "both slavs and scandinavians" if " the bulk of the population was Slavic tribes"?

most of the population was slavic, but there were many scandinavian immigrants as well. It doesn't contradict.
The first french kings were germanic ( I am not sure of the rest ), and the a couple of germanic tribes settled in Gaul, but most of the population is speaking french, which is a latin language. Still they call themselves 'the french', that means that the franks were their ancestors. It REALLY doesn't contradict serb! For example, how would you describe the Spanish?

[XarXo]

"spanish" doesn't exist, is the territory of the older tribes of tartesic (andalusia, murcia, algarve), basque-aquitans (basque country, navarra and aquitania in france), iberic-postcapiense (catalonia, valencia, rousillon in france and a part of aragon) and luso-celtic (portugal, galicia, asturias, cantabria and northern castile and leon).

Balearic islands had a strange small civ.

[XarXo]

Oh, I forget: Iberic and Tartesic are from the Sahara area (when sahara losed all the water, the people moved north). Celtic are the common celts, Basques-Aquitanes are the remaining of a large but small developed culture that stayed before in northern peninsula before all the comings. Postcapiense, is a mix of iberians with another and smaller pre-iberian tribes that stayed in the pyrinean mountains and the zone of Cap de Creus. This is usually called capcirnenque or "Caves Culture".

But, in the other hand, the prevalent alphabet was iberian and ocurred an "iberization" of the two older tribes. I have to say too that Tartessos (Tharsis by greeks) was the largest culture in the peninsulae.

Finally, the political vision is: Thartessos in the south as the lonely kingdom, small tribes in all the peninsulae (near-to empty in the central areas), with a concentration of them in Valencian Country. Very primitive tribes in Basque Country and Northern Catalonia. Celtic contact in northern Galicia and Asturias.