Can a case be made for a Ukrainian civ for a Europe map?

[Heresson]

Interpretators say that they could be Cyryl and Metody.

[Serb]

Mefody, Heresson, M e F o d y.
Nah, those two weren't angels. They were humans. So, version about two fallen angels is more likely.

[Heresson]

Actually it's Methody, not Mefody. In Polish it is Metody.
You, Russians, tend to change th into f, while we into t;
Theodor - Polish Teodor, Russian Fiodor.
Theofil - Polish Teofil, Russian (he he he) Fiofil?
And I know who they were, dammit.
Better than You.

[Gangerolf]

Conquest or not, a sigificant part of the population of Kiev and surroundings were viking settlers and their descendants. "Rus" comes from the Finno-Ugric word for Sweden, Ruotsi.

[Heresson]

Ruthenians wouldn't be able to build a state themselves

[XarXo]

Woah, I'm with this , a similar reaction happened with my *terrible* Crown of Aragon thread.

Ignore them Cian McGuire, a "civ" only can exists if:

1.- Is far from a powerful-today one (why they doesn't include the "small" and "powerless" SIAM??? or ANGKOR WATT??? Answer: Too near from India, and not an european one! Why they included Iroquois? No comments...),

2.- Is a western european one (sorry, your civ is in the "commies" *sorry* "russians").

3.- The players have an high amount of bills to spend in stores for the games (If Centroafrican Republic were a rich and powerful country, don't doubt for a centroafrican civ!!!)

4.- The history doesn't matters. Is a game! (true answer: No gold? No civ!)

5.- And, *at the end*, the civs for "full the map" must be in the anglosaxonian history as a big (??) enemy, note that: Indian, Iroquois & Zulu. Are perfect for full the map, but... What about with: Thai, Khmer, Incans, Mayans, Ghana, Ethiopians, or simply renaming Zulus for Shona??

THESE ARE THE TRUE REASONS, so... Just learn 3D Studio and Civ III mod creation

[Serb]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
Conquest or not, a sigificant part of the population of Kiev and surroundings were viking settlers and their descendants. "Rus" comes from the Finno-Ugric word for Sweden, Ruotsi.

'sigificant'?


Why in that case Slavic language was official language of Kiev Rus, not the language of Vikings?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
Ruthenians wouldn't be able to build a state themselves

still troling? nice.
Look at map Heresson, this huge part of the World painted with red colour, the largest country on this planet is Ruthenian state. Then look a bit west oh and don't forget to use the looking glass to see this one... yeah... this small patch on the globe is the sad kingdom of traitors of slavic brotherhood. Compare.

And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

[statusperfect]

Ukraine would be cool.

They have (had?) a very distict culture.

Leader: MAZEPA
UU: Cossack (hey wait....?)

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Serb

still troling? nice.
Look at map Heresson, this huge part of the World painted with red colour, the largest country on this planet is Ruthenian state. Then look a bit west oh and don't forget to use the looking glass to see this one... yeah... this small patch on the globe is the sad kingdom of traitors of slavic brotherhood. Compare.

And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

Your last sentence isn't true and makes your entire speech obsolete.
The Vikings built your state, so don't boast with it.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Serb


'sigificant'?


Why in that case Slavic language was official language of Kiev Rus, not the language of Vikings?

official language? well the vikings spoke "viking" for several generations before they merged with the slavs.

And... we build our state, not Vikings or anybody else.

I agree. Russia consisted of several independent khaganates and states at that time, and only two of them were set up by Vikings (Novgorod and Kiev). The Great Russian state came at a later point.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson


Your last sentence isn't true and makes your entire speech obsolete.
The Vikings built your state, so don't boast with it.

Could you prove it? What is the definition of state in your opinion?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Gangerolf


official language? well the vikings spoke "viking" for several generations before they merged with the slavs.

Could you prove it? I guess you'll make a big faivor for history as science if you make it, because afaik there were no state documents, treaties, etc. which were signed on Viking language in Kiev Rus.

I agree. Russia consisted of several independent khaganates and states at that time, and only two of them were set up by Vikings (Novgorod and Kiev). The Great Russian state came at a later point.

Those two Novgorod and kiev weren't founded by Vikings (Varyags as we call them) too. Can you give me a single evidence that Novgorod or Kiev were founded by Vikings?
I guess no.

Btw, thanks for support

[Gangerolf]

Could you prove it? I guess you'll make a big faivor for history as science if you make it, because afaik there were no state documents, treaties, etc. were signed on Viking language in Kiev Rus.

bah. ok I don't know about official documents. but you should read the accounts of the arab writers Ibn Rustah and Ibn Fadlan who visited the Rus. it's quite clear that they kept their customs and language. This is also proven by several graves and runestones.

Those two Novgorod and kiev weren't founded by Vikings (Varyags as we call them) too. Can you give me a single evidence that Novgorod or Kiev were founded by Vikings?

The Vikings didn't found Novgordod or Kiev per se, but they moved in, took control and made them great

[Serb]

A whole bunch of Russian and not only Russian historians thinks otherwise. This debate between followers of 'Normanism' and its foes continues for years. And none of the sides provided strong enough evidences to 100% or dis-prove this theory afaik.