Can a case be made for a Ukrainian civ for a Europe map?

[Antrine]

QUOTE by Sparkle//Wow, this is a cool flamewar :-) I´m going to add a bit.

Czech rep is not catholic. Czech rep is ABSOLUTELY ATHEISTIC - people who believe in some kind of God, Allah, Jehova or whatever are just a minority here and religion has absolutely no influence on our life. Slovakia is catholic, on contrary. Czech people see Poland as a religiously fanatical nation, where church has influence on normal life of people which is something that we absolutely can´t understand. We have a big ukrainian minority here and most Czech people don´t like them, because most of them involve in black work and organized crime (or at least most of those who are seen by public).

But despite history (communism), Czechs do NOT hate the Russians. We like Russians. What we really hate is Americans. They are alien culture to us, Russia is not.UNQUOTE

Wow! Sparkle I am definately jealous of Czech cultural (non-religious position) So in studying this situation, you found Slavakia to be Catholic, so you just 'spilt' the country in two. Nice move. Now I am a Seatteite (just north of Seattle in Washington State, USA ) Now we brag that fewer people per capita go to church here than anywhere in our country. (We are heavily pagan here) They send missionaries from all over to here (just like thy send to Africa) Bless the bastards!

So in keeping with Czech thinking (which sounds clever) we could split this country (USA) up to about 20 or so 'states' based on region, religion and cultural bias. Actually I would favor this idea except we are so outnumbered by fanatics in this country from the top down (OUR President is Fundalmentalist, goodness gracious) and they recently 'lifted' the ban on owning and buying more automatic weapons (we own more small arms amoung the population that all the rest of world and THEIR armies combined, so p.s. do not attack us) that we PAGANS soon after this 20 region split up would be wiped off the face of the planet!

Is there any room in Czech left, for a few beleaguered pagans?

PSS, the answer to 'what constitutes a CIV' is SID or any modder.

[Heresson]

Nah, they divided Tchechoslovakia based on ethnic division, and that Czechs have bigger percent of atheists is another thing.

[Popovic]

Now that was terrible
Serb, i don't know wether you are deliberately ignoring history or wether you are ignorant of history. But from what I've read, I'd say you're both.
If I felt in a mood to indulge in a little bit of provocation, I'd ask for your thought on the Chechens as a civ. But I don't. I've read enough retarded hateful jingoistic stuff for today.
Most Ukrainians (I'm not talking about their many minorities) feel Ukrainian, not Russian. Therefore they are a distinct nation. All the Ukrainians I know feel insulted when being refered to as Russians. Just as YOU would feel insulted if you were labelled Ukrainian, right ? You pretend you're one and the same, but that has to be with a single little difference : that Russians are superior, of course.

I won't resort to the huge amount of historical evidence that prove your grotesque Tsarist and Soviet-inherited ideology completely wrong, as others have done in vain. Russia is absolutely not original in this BTW, just look at French republican and English "Whig" history. You sure would find it to be complete rubbish. And you'd be completely right. But of course, that has to be different with Russian state-promoted history, right ?
And I'll ask you this : why should you take pride in a state that has probably oppressed every single of your ancestors ? Because you were taught to at school, precisely by that same state ? Why do almost every state in this world teach lies to their youth about their oh so glorious past, and not Russia ?
Personnaly, as a French, I fail to take pride in a state that has helped or organised genocides, caused misery around the world for a few centuries, and which is now wallowing in über-capitalist depravity; to name only a few of the most embarrassing aspects. That doesn't mean I am nor I should be ashamed of being French, but why on earth should I be proud ?

I know it's pointless but I couldn't help it.

[Heresson]

Hm... it will be interesting to see Serb's reply to that.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Popovic
Now that was terrible
Serb, i don't know wether you are deliberately ignoring history or wether you are ignorant of history. But from what I've read, I'd say you're both.
If I felt in a mood to indulge in a little bit of provocation, I'd ask for your thought on the Chechens as a civ. But I don't. I've read enough retarded hateful jingoistic stuff for today.
Most Ukrainians (I'm not talking about their many minorities) feel Ukrainian, not Russian. Therefore they are a distinct nation. All the Ukrainians I know feel insulted when being refered to as Russians. Just as YOU would feel insulted if you were labelled Ukrainian, right ? You pretend you're one and the same, but that has to be with a single little difference : that Russians are superior, of course.

I won't resort to the huge amount of historical evidence that prove your grotesque Tsarist and Soviet-inherited ideology completely wrong, as others have done in vain. Russia is absolutely not original in this BTW, just look at French republican and English "Whig" history. You sure would find it to be complete rubbish. And you'd be completely right. But of course, that has to be different with Russian state-promoted history, right ?
And I'll ask you this : why should you take pride in a state that has probably oppressed every single of your ancestors ? Because you were taught to at school, precisely by that same state ? Why do almost every state in this world teach lies to their youth about their oh so glorious past, and not Russia ?
Personnaly, as a French, I fail to take pride in a state that has helped or organised genocides, caused misery around the world for a few centuries, and which is now wallowing in über-capitalist depravity; to name only a few of the most embarrassing aspects. That doesn't mean I am nor I should be ashamed of being French, but why on earth should I be proud ?

I know it's pointless but I couldn't help it.

[Heresson]

Strange. I expected something like "shut the f... up You nazi"
hmmmm
Is Serb getting civilised?

[Serb]

I am Russian and I am Ukranian (at least 25%), I also can call myself Beylorussian (many of my ancesters originate from place where modern Byelorussia located now) and to some extent Polish (though I have only 1/16 of Polish blood in my viens).
And all this fricking mix of blood is called Russian. You're completely misunderstood our relationships. Russia and Ukraine is like a twin brothers. We started our history as ONE nation and were separated (for a bit) later.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
Strange. I expected something like "shut the f... up You nazi"
hmmmm
Is Serb getting civilised?

Of course not, so **** off and have a nice day.

[Heresson]

for a bit? Several hungred years is a bit?

[Serb]

If you want Ukraine as separate civ, then separte as unique civs: north and south Italians, west and east Germans, Scotland and England all Chinese provinces, etc.
I don't need a tranlation to understand so-called Ukranian language, at the same time afik, people from northern China do not understand a word of South Chinese.

[Heresson]

I do not need a translation of Czech or Slovak language, and in many cases also of other Slavic languages...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
for a bit? Several hungred years is a bit?

Several? Are you sure you don't need an additional English or history lesson? Few is a proper word in this case, not several.
And yes, few hundrend years is a bit for a history.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
I do not need a translation of Czech or Slovak language, and in many cases also of other Slavic languages...

It's not surprising. Polish is just a screwed up version of Russian. I can understand roughly 50% of your fancy Polish language, as well.

Have a nice day.

[Heresson]

check your dictionary, Serb...
One of the meanings of "several" word is "few"
Also, taken into account that there's not much more than 1000 years of Ruthenian history, a few hungred years is a lot.
Even Kievan Ruthenia wasn't united all of the time...
so, even before Mongol invasion, your history was separate.
Russia appeared on main Ukraine only in half of XVII century, and it owned majority of Ukriane only since the end of XVIII century, and
Galicia and Zakarpacie was under the rule of Moscow only since the half of XX century...

[Serb]

You better check yours, wtf is hungred?

Even Kievan Ruthenia wasn't united all of the time...

This is bullsh!t. Nations didn't exist then. Kiev and Novgorod city-states were no more different than Sparta and Athens, for example.
So should we have a different civs for Sparta and Athens then, istead of Greece?