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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Originally posted by korn469
so you want some kind of resource bonus for the jungle? find a mod that has this and i'll co-opt it(with credit of course)
Just talk to Velociryx ... perhaps he cares to trade notes ...
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
Quick info from my next test game: The AI apparently cannot cope with wheeled settlers. I managed to cross a sea area 4 tiles wide with a galley and made contact with the Indians. They are alone on a large island / small continent with room for about a dozen cities, but have only founded three so far. These cities are situated in the south of their island, with some mountains to the north and jungle areas to the east and west. No Indian settler seems to have crossed this invisible border. Without any decent production base and any contact to other civs (but me, recently), the Indians have not researched map making until now either and therefore don't have the option to load settlers on a galley and sail around the jungle area to the decent city sites in the north.
BTW, did you know that if one wants to move a settler from a grassland tile to a jungle tile, both tiles must have roads? I didn't, and I guess the AI doesn't know either.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
BTW, did you know that if one wants to move a settler from a grassland tile to a jungle tile, both tiles must have roads? I didn't, and I guess the AI doesn't know either.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
i looked at your save game, and yes it does appear that under certain circumstances that a player (especially the AI) will get bottled in because of territory; however in most cases this won't have a crippling effect on the player so unless this happens quite often i think its ok for now
i am planning on trying to get beta5 out sunday evening, anyways here is more of the read me to look under the hood with, notice that i changed barbarians from warriors/horsemen to swordmen/knights along with decreasing the attack bonus against barbarians this taken with slower expansion should mean that barbarians can actually be a speed bump instead of a cash cow
General Settings Changes
*Future Tech Cost now 500
*Minimum Research Time now 2 turns
*Maximum Research Time now 50 turns
*Cities Needed to Support an Army now 2
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Air Missions now 90%
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Stealth Missions now 9%
*Citizen Defensive Bonus now 16
*Building Defensive Bonus now 16
*Basic Barbarian is now a Swordsman
*Advanced Barbarian is now a Knight
*Barbarian Sea Unit now Privateer
Changes to Citizens
*Scientist now provides 3 research and comes with Education
*Tax Collector now provides 3 taxes and comes with Gunpowder
Changes to Civilizations
*Implemented Sevorak's More City Names Mod
*Changed colors for many civs
Changes to Civilization Advances
*Increased cost of all Industrial and Modern Age techs by 10%
Changes to Culture
*In awe of
Culture Ratio 4:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 40%
Initial Resistance Chance 35%
Continued Resistance Chance 25%
*Admirers of
Culture Ratio 3:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 30%
Initial Resistance Chance 45%
Continued Resistance Chance 35%
*Impressed with
Culture Ratio 2:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 25%
Initial Resistance Chance 60%
Continued Resistance Chance 50%
*Unimpressed with
Culture Ratio 1:2
Chance of Successful Propaganda 15%
Initial Resistance Chance 80%
Continued Resistance Chance 70%
*Dismissive of
Culture Ratio 1:3
Chance of Successful Propaganda 10%
Initial Resistance Chance 90%
Continued Resistance Chance 80%
*Disdainful of
Culture Ratio 1:4
Chance of Successful Propaganda 5%
Initial Resistance Chance 95%
Continued Resistance Chance 90%
Changes to Difficulty Level
*Cheiftain
Number of Citizens born content 5
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 500%
*Warlord
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 50%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%
*Regent
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%
*Monarch
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
*Emperor
Addition Free Support 10
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
*Deity
Number of Start Unit type 1: 2
Number of Start Unit type 2: 3
Addition Free Support 20
Bonus for each city 5
Max government transition time 1
Cost factor 5
Changes to Diplomats and Spies
*Build an Embassy cost 15
*Investigate City cost 7
*Steal Technology cost 9
*Steal World Map cost 1
*Plant Spy cost 45
*Steal Plans cost 7
*Initiate Propaganda cost 80
*Sabotage Production cost 8
*Expose Enemy Mole cost 60
Just a request for the 1.06 readme: Please include the original figures/settings whenever you change something, i.e. 'Cities Needed to Support an Army now 2 instead of 4'.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
now you tell me!
actually this was a dirty little secret of mine, but the thing is many of the changes were done one night back when Apolyton was on the old servers and was having problems so i made the entire readme with all of the changes and when i hit submit i lost it all
so i remember what i changed not what i changed it from, however i have an untouched version of the original civ3mod.bic so in the final readme i'll go back and compare the two and tell what i changed from, but for now i'm just putting in the changes
have you been able to play anymore today? also this is just out of my own curiosity, i'm -5 GMT (eastern standard time) how about you?
have you been able to play anymore today? also this is just out of my own curiosity, i'm -5 GMT (eastern standard time) how about you?
I'm GMT +1. (Take a look at the times I posted today and you'll notice my dirty little secret. )
Yes, I continued my previous game and have reached the late Industrial age. Took a break then because the game became somewhat tedious. Later I'm gonna force a revolution, switch to all available governments (7) for testing purposes and compare the stats (commerce, corruption, supported units etc.). BTW, I have 26 cities at the moment which is quite more then the original no. of optimal cities for a standard map, and corruption is still just a nuisance for a Democracy (13% overall, 70% in the last city I captured). I'd really like to know the details of the corruption formula.
i looked at your save game, and yes it does appear that under certain circumstances that a player (especially the AI) will get bottled in because of territory; however in most cases this won't have a crippling effect on the player so unless this happens quite often i think its ok for now
I respectfully disagree. If the AI gets bottled in like the Indians in my test game, it's doomed for sure. Also, this happened in my third game with the 1.06 beta, and I quit a game before because I was 'nearly' bottled in (the peninsula situation I talked about). I suspect that effects like these would be quite common.
However, I may have some good news for wheeled settlers. First, as I noticed in my third game when I made contact with the civs at the other continent, the missing ability for settlers to cross mountain chains and jungles seems to make for a very 'natural' empire expansion - the borders of the different empires at least slightly resembled geograpy. I already started to like this feature of your mod, but then remembered the pathetic Indians' fate. Second, while the AI obviously has no idea how benificial roads can be if you face nothing but jungle, it definitely knows how to race to yet-to-be city sites by loading settlers on galleys. The Indians just couldn't build galleys because they were so backward. But what if they could have built a primitive, slow ship capable of transporting a settler ... a 0/1/2 sea unit available right at the start ... a coracle ?
Seriously, while one can argue if coracles are an important addition to Civ3 or rather 'fluff' stuff, in combination with wheeled settler they are a must. That is, if the AI would use coracles to counter a problematic starting position. This needs to be tested, but I'm optimistic.
any ideas or anyone else experiancing a crash like this? it almost seems that selecting fuedalism causes the crash, but i don't know why it would
FYI, selecting feudalism never caused a problem in my games.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
Yes, I continued my previous game and have reached the late Industrial age. Took a break then because the game became somewhat tedious. Later I'm gonna force a revolution, switch to all available governments (7) for testing purposes and compare the stats (commerce, corruption, supported units etc.). BTW, I have 26 cities at the moment which is quite more then the original no. of optimal cities for a standard map, and corruption is still just a nuisance for a Democracy (13% overall, 70% in the last city I captured). I'd really like to know the details of the corruption formula.
i'm sorry to hear about the game bogging down into tediousness, could you please describe what exactly what made the game feel boring? any thoughts on what could be done to relieve it? additionally have you seen the AI use armies, and do you find that you are using more armies than before?
as for the corruption formula, it is effected by map size (sets the number of optimal cities), difficulty level (sets the percentage of optimal cities, government (sets corruption level), number of cities (if over the optimal number then it causes corruption), and distance (determines corruption)
as far as the coracle, i agree with you on principle that there needs to be a naval unit that doesn't have any requirements, but i am not sure how to implement it yet because map making takes four techs to get to (or two techs for the english)
so we could do the following
*add a ship in the 0.0.1|1 to the 0.1.2|1 range that cost 10 shields and doesn't require any tech (this is what i'm leaning towards)
*reduce galley movement to 2 and remove its tech requirement
*simply remove the galley's tech requirement
i haven't figured out the crash yet
i'm looking forward to your testing
Also i am begining to think that the entire tech tree might need an overhaul because it is quite unsatisfactory, but i'm unsure about this for various reasons, and this is a future change, certainly not something for v1.06
also the unit resource model needs some tweaks at least in the industrial and modern ages
plus i also think i'm going to bump up the infantry units attack to 20 (8 before the stat increase) because if the AI could properly handle that then it would change the dynamics of industrial age warfare somewhat (tanks would either have to stay on the offensive or risk a great chance of effective counter attacks)
Also i need to recheck the buildings before i post there stats, but here is how each building fits into the game (the * means i added that building)
Capital
Palace
Happiness
Temple
Colosseum
Cathedral
Economic
Market Place
Bank
*Stock Exchange
Trade
Harbor
Air Port
Military
Walls
Coastal Fortress
Barracks
*Port Facility
*Airforce Installation
Production
*Mill
Factory
Manufactoring Facility
Coal Plant
Hydro Plant
Solar Plant
Nuclear Plant
Research
Library
University
*Public School
Research Lab
Originally posted by korn469
i'm sorry to hear about the game bogging down into tediousness, could you please describe what exactly what made the game feel boring? any thoughts on what could be done to relieve it? additionally have you seen the AI use armies, and do you find that you are using more armies than before?
It became tedious to give orders to 26 individual cities to add the next building in the build queue, but this is a general problem of Civ3, not of your mod. (I use the domestic advisor screen to to this - maybe there's some efficient way I haven't figured out yet to pre-define three or four different build queues.) Anyway, the additional buildings fit nicely in the game, I'd just get rid of the public school (science building no. 4).
I haven't seen AI armies in my test games. I built my first army after i had finished the military academy and loaded it with 3 knights, but haven't used it so far. (I probably will, if only for testing purposes - how often will it be able to attack per turn?)
as far as the coracle, i agree with you on principle that there needs to be a naval unit that doesn't have any requirements, but i am not sure how to implement it yet because map making takes four techs to get to (or two techs for the english)
so we could do the following
*add a ship in the 0.0.1|1 to the 0.1.2|1 range that cost 10 shields and doesn't require any tech (this is what i'm leaning towards)
Also my favourite choice, provided you can add some decent graphics in the long run. Regarding the stats, 0/1/1 seems the best choice to me (slow enough to make galleys still worthwile, defense value so the coracle cannot be captured by AI privateers).
*reduce galley movement to 2 and remove its tech requirement
Also okay with me.
*simply remove the galley's tech requirement
IMO, this makes early contact with some neighbouring civs too easy.
i'm looking forward to your testing
Also i am begining to think that the entire tech tree might need an overhaul because it is quite unsatisfactory, but i'm unsure about this for various reasons, and this is a future change, certainly not something for v1.06
After finishing my tests regarding government stats and army blitz ability, I'll probably wait for the beta5 version to start a new game. And yes, the tech tree needs to be tweaked (especially for the modern area), but not in v1.06.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
Originally posted by korn469
armies move as fast as their slowest unit, and only if the army contains (only?) units with blitz will it actually have blitz...so while an army of knights won't have blitz, an army of modern armor/mech infantry should have it
I built an army and loaded it with 3 calvalry units (who, also in your mod, don't have the ability to blitz). However, I was able to attack with this army two times per turn. As the army retreated after the first attack and had only one movement point left, this corresponds to the cavalry's movement rate of 3. Apparently a cavalry army has blitz!
Savegame is enclosed. The army is loaded on a transport; move it to the continent to the west and attack an American city.
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
Trade
Harbor 80/0/1 Allows Water Trade, Increases Food in Water (Commercial, Coastal)
Air Port 160/0/2 Allows Air Trade, 1 Pollution {Oil} (Commercial)
Production
*Mill 160/0/2 +25% Production, Must be Near a River; Engineering
Factory 240/0/4 +50% Production, 2 Pollution {Iron}
Manufactoring Plant 320/0/5 +50% Production, 1 Pollution [Factory] {Aluminum}
Coal Plant 160/0/4 +50% Production, 3 Pollution [Factory] {Coal}
Hydro Plant 240/0/4 +50% Production, Must be Near a River [Factory] {Iron}
Solar Plant 320/0/4 +50% Production [Factory] {Rubber}
Nuclear Plant 240/0/4 +100% Production, 1 Pollution, Must be Near Water, Can Explode or Meltdown [Factory] {Uranium}
Offshore Platform 240/0/3 Increases Shields in Water, 2 Pollution (Coastal)
Research
Library 80/2/1 +50% Research Output (Scientific)
University 200/3/3 +50% Research Output [Library] (Scientific)
*Public School 200/1/2 +50% Research Output
Research Lab 240/1/4 +50% Research Output [University] (Scientific)
Corruption
Courthouse 80/0/1 Resistant to Propaganda, Reduces Corruption
*Newspaper 120/1/2 Reduces Corruption [Library] Printing Press
Police Station 160/0/2 Reduces Corruption, Reduces War Weariness [Courthouse]
Growth
Granary 60/0/1 Doubles City Growth Rate
Aqueduct 100/0/1 Allows City Size Level 2
Hospital 160/0/2 Allows City Size Level 3
Pollution
Mass Transit 200/0/3 Removes Population Pollution {Rubber}
Recycling Center 200/0/3 Removes Building Pollution
Cultural
*Forum 60/2/1
*Theater 160/4/2 Free Artistry
*Museum 240/6/4 [Theater] Atomic Theory
Wonders Capital
Forbidden Palace
Happiness
Hanging Gardens
Oracle
Sistine Chapel
Shakespeare's Theater
JS Bacg's Cathedral
Cure for Cancer
Economic
Colossus
Wall Street
Trade
Great Lighthouse
Magellan's Voyage
Smith's Trading Company
Military
Great Wall
Sun Tzu's Art of War
Leonardo's Workshop
Universal Suffrage
Manhattan Project
Heroic Epic
Military Academy
Pentagon
Strategic Missile Defense
Intelligence Agency
Battlefield Medicine
Production
Hoover Dam
Iron Works
Research
Great Library
Copernicus's Observatory
Newton's University
Theory of Evolution
SETI Program
Apollo Program
Corruption
N/A
Growth
Longevity
Pollution
N/A
Cultural
Pyramids
United Nations
Space Ship Parts
SS Thrusters
SS Engine
SS Docking Bay
SS Cockpit
SS Fuel Cells
SS Life Support System
SS Stasis Chamber
SS Storage/Supply
SS Planetary Party Lounge
SS Exterior Casing
earlier, techwins reported that an army of knights did not have blitz, and then you report that a cavalry army does have blitz
well here is what is happening
Armies do have blitz, but every time a unit retreats that means that the army loses one one movement point, so what probably happened was that the first knight in techwins army most likely retreated so the attack (1mp) and the retreat (another 1mp) eat up all of the knight armies movement
so if you were able to attack with a cavalry army and none of the units ever retreated then it could have up to three attacks, but if you attacked, and the first two units in the army then retreated, all of the armies movement would be gone, i don't like that firaxis implemented it this way, but oh well
what i am wondering is does each time a unit retreat it uses up an army mp even when the army doesn't have blitz? if that was the case then this makes armies even weaker
i have some radical ideas formulating, and they may help improve the game significantly (on the other hand they could ruin it)
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