MOD: Civ3 Fascist Patch

[ajbera]

Wolf - the mod sounds great! I can't wait to try it.

Have you (or any others using it) noticed the AI using it? I know you can program government preferences via the editor, but have you seen it in action?

[gentleben]

no one mentioned Wolf's tribute to Nazism website...this freak has got everything on there but burning jews...
I'm taking the patch off since it adds a swastica(sp?) to the game. I'd recomend to all civers not in favor of racial purging to boycot this persons works until such time as he gets a clue and loses the propaganda site. Some of us who lost large chunks of their family to these madmen find such tributes sligtly insensitive.

[Roland Ehnström]

Soapyfrog wrote:
"Besides if I play a fascist government, I don't want to be associated with a pack of thugs like the Nazi party. They were for the most part:
a) idiots
b) hypocrits
c) sadists"

Like the Fascists weren't...

Peace!
-- Roland

EDIT: What the??? I post a message replying to a post by Soapyfrog, and my post is placed BEFORE his!

[Soapyfrog]

Fascism originated with the Italians, and it fact National Socialism (Nazism) was not a particularly "pure" form of fascism.

In any case, it would be far more appropriate to have the Italian "fascisti" symbol, which is comprised of three Fasces (rods and axes) inverted in a circle like so:



In any case it would be:

a) more accurate
b) less offensive
c) cooler looking IMHO

Besides if I play a fascist government, I don't want to be associated with a pack of thugs like the Nazi party. They were for the most part:

a) idiots
b) hypocrits
c) sadists

And Hitler was of course a powermongering lunatic far more lucky than skilled or intelligent. He lost the war single-handedly in spite of the strenuous efforts of the Wehrmacht. What an idiot.

[Soapyfrog]

Hmmm that image didn't come out.

Well follow this link and you'll see it:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8780/reference/italy/fasces.gif

[Wolfshanze]

Originally posted by David Murray
Wolfshanze -- how did you create the fascist govt? I'm interested to know because when I get my copy of Civ3 (Friday), I want to create some more govt. types--theocracy, military dictatorship, etc. Or is is done simply through the editor...?

It's simply done through the editor... though the actual Swastika graphics I had to do myself, and substitute another graphic to fit it in (hopefully adding icons instead of replacing them will be possible in the future).

I also had to edit the Civilopedia manually to add info on Fascism and provide links for it in the Civilopedia... all that work was done outside the editor.

[Wolfshanze]

Originally posted by gentleben
no one mentioned Wolf's tribute to Nazism website...this freak has got everything on there but burning jews...
I'm taking the patch off since it adds a swastica(sp?) to the game. I'd recomend to all civers not in favor of racial purging to boycot this persons works until such time as he gets a clue and loses the propaganda site. Some of us who lost large chunks of their family to these madmen find such tributes sligtly insensitive.

I assume you can read, so why did you go past the warning screens if all you want to do is sling mud, attack people, tell everyone else what is best for them, censor others, and otherwise act like a fascist yourself?

For the record, the Hammer and Sickle emblem of Communism is responsible for roughly 30 million dead this century in and around the time of WWII itself... yet, for some reason the Hammer and Sickle is okay to portray and doesn't make you feel all warm inside like the Swastika does... I guess because it was mostly commies that died from Communism, that makes it okay?

On the website there are images of Hitler and Swastikas... nothing else... you were also warned before going there to avoid any tantrums, so what's with your fascist attitudes on what people can and can't do to meet YOUR standards?

[Wolfshanze]

Originally posted by Soapyfrog
Fascism originated with the Italians, and it fact National Socialism (Nazism) was not a particularly "pure" form of fascism.

In any case, it would be far more appropriate to have the Italian "fascisti" symbol, which is comprised of three Fasces (rods and axes) inverted in a circle like so:



In any case it would be:

a) more accurate
b) less offensive
c) cooler looking IMHO

Besides if I play a fascist government, I don't want to be associated with a pack of thugs like the Nazi party. They were for the most part:

a) idiots
b) hypocrits
c) sadists



And Hitler was of course a powermongering lunatic far more lucky than skilled or intelligent. He lost the war single-handedly in spite of the strenuous efforts of the Wehrmacht. What an idiot.

The Nazis were indeed idiots, but the reason why I chose a Swastika instead of the fasces is simple...

When you think of Fascism in the 20th century, chances are the first thing that comes to mind is Nazi Germany and it's many swastikas (which by the way are shown in pretty much every movie and documentary on TV, so why is it wrong in a game, when it's just fine everywhere else), not Italy and some wheat symbol.

For the record, the Swastika predates the Nazis by several hundred years (and can be currently found in many European cathedrals).

I chose to model Nazi Germany in the patch simply because it's far more recognized and because it IS controversial... no dancing around the topic... you can't IGNORE history.

I'm sure if the nazis were around today, they'd love "Political Correctness", because it's just a fancy word for censorship and banning thoughts you don't agree with, which oddly enough is what the Fascists practiced a lot of.

[monkspider]

Good points, I agree wolfshanze, keep the swasticka...and I speak this as a leftist.
I display a hammer and sickle on a Soviet hockey jersey of mine, and poltical correctness be damned, I still wear it!

[JamesJKirk]

Wolf,

I definitely look forward to using your patch once I get Civ3, once I found the Civ2 version, I never played w/o it...:self plug time:that is until I modded it into the Communist patch, which replaced old Communism with a military dictatorship, and Fundie with a sort of Maoist/Castroist sort of populist Communism

Anyway, I'm enjoying the debate, and it's amazing how many different views of fascism there are out there..I'm not even going to get into my take

Monk-

You can always add another generation of governments to the end game if you want to satisfy the lefty utopian in you

You could have a true Socialist Democracy, which would probably fit between a sort of ultra-laissez-faire Corporate (or Libertarian) Republic and a Technocratic regime a la Brave New World-

I probably could think of stats for each, but won't bother, although I'm sure Technocracy would have no corruption, although probably no science to speak of and not much of a military either, or maybe it would.

[Wolfshanze]

Originally posted by monkspider
Good points, I agree wolfshanze, keep the swasticka...and I speak this as a leftist.
I display a hammer and sickle on a Soviet hockey jersey of mine, and poltical correctness be damned, I still wear it!

Thanks monkspider. Glad to see some people still have enough backbone to have free thought.

I always value people based on what's in their heart and how they act, not what they wear or how they appear.

So monkspider, what do you think of my latest updates in v1.2 of the Fascist Patch?

Since v1.0, I've weakened Fascism and (in my view) properly balanced the naval units... I love the balance of units in the Age of Sail (from Caravels to Galleons, Frigates and Privateers)... I've played with the new values and I really love it!

(Pat myself on the back)

Oh, and thanks James... another vote of confidence... was beginning the think the whole world went "politically correct" on old Wolfy!

Glad to see there's still plenty of fans from my work on the Civ2 patch.

The key with patching governments is to keep them balanced, AND to keep them differant from one another... just how many late-game military/peaceful/combo governments can one get and keep them unique enough? I figure one late game government for each "style" of play: militant, peaceful, wishy-washy are represented by me as Communism, Democracy and Fascism. Not sure I could add a fourth late-game government AND have it distinct enough from the others even if I wanted to!!!

[gentleben]

sorry fella but I got no warning ...and a warning doesnt make it right..I could warn you that I'm gunna punch you in the face and I'm guessing that even though you didnt run away screaming like a little girl you'd still be pissed that I hit you...you are right..you have the right to make whatever website you want..but be ready to face up to the consequences...like people not using your file (which I whounld happily use sans going throug the nazi fanboi site..and that whole swastica thing...) Maybe you could be more respectful and just change it ??

-joe

[JamesJKirk]

Originally posted by gentleben
sorry fella but I got no warning ...and a warning doesnt make it right..I could warn you that I'm gunna punch you in the face and I'm guessing that even though you didnt run away screaming like a little girl you'd still be pissed that I hit you...you are right..you have the right to make whatever website you want..but be ready to face up to the consequences...like people not using your file (which I whounld happily use sans going throug the nazi fanboi site..and that whole swastica thing...) Maybe you could be more respectful and just change it ??

-joe

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, just like that old saying, if you ignore history it will go away, and if you forget it, it'll never repeat itself

Any sane person know's he's not a Nazi, there's a plain warning on the page, and he's right when he says that there're Nazis and Swastikas all over popular entertainment.
And also, I haven't heard you voice any concern about Communism being in the game, when Lenin and Stalin were responsible for the deaths of millions.
Wait, for that matter, despots haven't exactly been the nicest guys either! You'd better kick them out of the game!
And Monarchies? don't get me started, fighting bloody wars over religion and balance of power, how atrocious, we don't want to be exposed to that!
Oooh, and evil slaveholding, death-penalty having Republics and Democracies, did you know they didn't even let women vote until the last hundred years in nearly all cases! Bah! Trechery! I never want to see another repressive symbol like the Statue of Liberty in my LIFE!....


To quote Homer Simpson:
"Now THAT's sarcasm!"

[gentleben]

they never should of given women the right to vote...but thats beside the point

[ancient]

Re: Fascist Patch

Originally posted by Wolfshanze
Thanks for the comments folks. The little chart Asher put up may be a tad bit misleading in one aspect... originally, I was going to (and did) add the Technology Advance of "Fascism" which in-turn gave the Fascist government form. However, after adding the new tech, it made the game unstable, so I had to take it back out and just have Fascism tacked-on to the already existing tech of espionage... so now, when you learn espionage, you gain Fascism. Hopefully I can correct this later when the mod tools improve... it's still very early in the life of Civ3. As for making certain civs like or dislike a government, I missed that... I'll have to go back in and check that out!

Hope you folks enjoy the patch as much as I enjoy making it available. Now you only have to choose which side you play as!

when i added the fascism tech and the fundamentalism tech to my patch (which is better than yours ) it made it become imposible to load older games, and the editor became unstable.. im think of making the change to the way your doing it..

even though the editor hasnt messed up in a time..