MOD: Civ3 Fascist Patch

[dweez]

Originally posted by JamesJKirk
I never want to see another repressive symbol like the Statue of Liberty in my LIFE!....

You forgot to mention all those people who died building the Pyramids! I cannot believe they put this symbol of opression in the game!

Seriously, I'm against fascism, and I'm also against burning books, censoring history and restricting freedom of speach.
So thanks for the patch and don't listen to people who constantly search the web trying to find something to get upset about.

[monkspider]

1.2 is looking great Wolfy, I *REALLY* like the changes you have made to the naval units, they are very much needed.
Keep up the good work!

[Soapyfrog]

Gentleben - you're clearly an imbecile. Why are you posting?

Wolfschanze - I would agree that the swastika and the Nazis are more "familiar" references to fascism... but that's precisely why I would shy away from it. After all we are trying to examine alternate possibilities with this game.

I am well aware of the origins of the swastika, and it is a pity that it was changed into an internationally recognized "symbol of hate" and adopted by so many neo-nazi rascist and white-supremecist movements, much like the COnfederaste flag is slowly becoming.

Nevertheless, since the Nazis don't really adequately represent Fascism in it's ideal form, I think the Italian symbol would be more appropriate, especially considering it better represents the name of that form of government.

Your modelling of Fascism in the game is really quite good though. I feel that there should be a multiplicity of choice for late game governments (including fundamentalism, which I will always suspect was removed for political reasons).

[Barnacle Bill]

The problem with using the Italian symbols is that Fascist Italy's wartime performance was so bad as to make them a joke. The Nazis on the other hand make such good villians that I'm sure if they had never existed Hollywood would have made them up.

I also agree that modern society in general tends to hold up the Nazis for their 10 million innocent dead while given Stalin a pass on his 20 million and Mao a pass on his 100 million.

I liked the Fascist patch in Civ2 myself.

One take on Fascism you should consider is that it is really modernized absolute monarchy, and its economic system is really modernized merchantilism (the economic system of choice by absolute monarchs). I could write an essay explaining that, but I didn't invent the idea (I read it someplace, and it stuck because it made sense). So, perhaps an alternative approach to creating Fascism as a viable "3rd way" government in lategame Civ3 is to start with the stats of Monarchy and tweek it into Fascism. Then again, maybe you end up in the same place, but it is another way to think about it.

[lockstep]

Re: Now at v1.1 of Fascist Patch

Originally posted by Wolfshanze
the Fascist Patch has now been updated to v1.1 (see first post on thread to update, or visit the official website).

Fascism's free military units have been slightly lowered, while Communism's has been slightly raised to seperate the differances between the two.

It´s not clear to me why Communist and Fascist governments should differ with regard to unit support. If you want to weaken Fascism, rather change its assimilation chance from the current 4% to 1% to reflect the 'racial superiority' delusions that were frequently associated with this kind of government. (In Civ3 gameplay terms, Fascism would be able to run a large military, but after the first 'blitz' would have to quell the ever-lasting resistance of foreign citizens.) I´d also suggest that Fascism should be immune to 'propaganda' instead of 'steal technology'.

BTW, the latest version of your patch (1.2) does include resistance and propaganda modifiers of Fascism vs. the other governments, but not vice versa. This needs to be fixed.

Originally posted by Soapyfrog
Nevertheless, since the Nazis don't really adequately represent Fascism in it's ideal form, I think the Italian symbol would be more appropriate, especially considering it better represents the name of that form of government.

IMO, using the swastika as an in-game graphic is simply in bad taste. (The Call To Power series included a Fascist government, but got by without nazi symbols.) I will install the Fascist patch, but use Civ3´s 'Nationalism' icon to symbolize the Fascist government. (And if that exposes me as a politically correct wimp, then be it so.)

[dannyevilcat]

use the fasces then

Alright. Enough of this Use the swastika vs. don't use the swastika thing!

At first, I figured I'd use the Fasces instead, since other civ's would probably use Fascism at one time or another, and the swastika is entirely a German city. However, I thought about it, and the fasces is entirely an Italian symbol. So I gave it some more thought, and after finishing my work, decided I liked the swastika better afterall.

But... I also want people to use this or their own Fascist government in the game, so heck, I'll let you use it if you want. It ain't perfect, since I originally drew it smaller and had to enlarge it.

Anyway, Wolfschanze, I'm keepin' yours.

[EarnhardtFan]

Where Did you get a copy of the Host Wessel March for your website, I've been looking for that song.

[Wolfshanze]

WWII Nazi Stuff

You can obtain an assortment of Nazi memorabilia and other WWII stuff at http://www.hammerwar.com

That includes music CD's of the Third Reich. (CD 25 has the Horst Wessel Leid).

Of course some people might get offended that Hammer's sight exists too... but you can't blame me for that one!

I'll include the Fasces as an option for thin skinned people in a future update to the Fascist Patch.

My only problem with keeping the patch up-to-date is that my country calls... just got the word today to pack my bags for Saudi Arabia... this sucks... I'll be overseas for the holidays... oh well, the things I do for my country!!!

[facistdictator]

OK This goes out to all you peace loving wimps who are giving my homeboy wolfshanze a hard time. Ive been to his site and it does have the warnings about the nazi signs and things. Wolfshanze is not a nazi but im not afraid to tell you i have 2 real nazi banners hanging over my wall in here in my computer room and a skull and crossbones flag. Why you ask well ill tell you, im absolutley fascinated not only with Hitler but all tyrants, dictators, and kings of history who by their determination had a vision in their head and made it materialize into reality. No im not some sick axe murderer or uneducated skinhead, i just can relate more to a conquerer than a flower peace loving wimp. I think fascism would be a excellent form of goverment for America today but the people would never have it I know that. Im not a racist i have friends of all colors and creeds who even disagree with me but that dont stop them from being my friend. I do believe and have heard on many documenteries from well known historians who did say that if Hitler would have never killed any jews and still did every thing else he would have went down in history as one of the greatest statesman ever. Historians have even said he could have shipped all the jews out of his country with nothing on their backs but a shirt and stolen everything else of theirs and still go down in history as a great statesman. But we all know what happened so yes what he done was extremely evil and wrong i totally agree but I still beleive in fascism as a good goverment. Every goverment has bad parts about it, not just fascism. Anyway I just wish everytime someone gets there feelings hurt in this country that i could get a penny and I would be a billionare. I heard a special on the news the other day about they were talking about taking Porky Pig out of cartoons because it makes fun of people that studder, i mean come on get a clue. I mean there is tons of things that offend me but im not going to start preaching sermons to everybody about it, as long as it dont affect me directly I dont give a sh@* what anybody does. Anyway sorry this is so long. Wolfshanze thanx again man I love it really keep up the good work.

[facistdictator]

Hey if anybody is looking for some nazi flags or other things go to www.micetrap.net BEFORE GOING IM WARNING ALL OF YOU YES THIS IS A SKINHEAD SITE AND NO IM NOT AFFILIATED WITH IT I JUST BUY THE DIFFERENT FLAGS FOR COLLECTION PURPOSES. THEIR THE BEST PRICES AROUND AND SHIP VERY FAST.

[Conquesticus]

Production Question for Wolfshanze

Hey Wolfshanze! I was using Republic and got drug into a war so I switched to your good ole Fascism. But, I noticed that even when I mobilized for war, things took a bit longer to build than under Republic. Is the production for F worse than R? I did horde gold like a madman, but it was taking a long time to build stuff. Also, where in the civlopedia (or online somewhere) is there a resource that is useful for comparing governments. I liked CTP's gov comparison tool, Civ 3 seems to be missing a lot of info!

Also, for you swastika haters, don't ***** on Wolfshanze. Believe it or no, the peace-loving isolationist Finns had baby-blue swastikas on their WW2 aircraft. It's a Christian cross after all. When Hitler saw that on those Finnish Fokkers, he went nuts, he thought it was the coolest thing he ever saw. Circumstance and a madman forever ruined the otherwise, cool-looking, swastika. And no the Finns weren't Nazis either, they contributed more troops to Israel in their war against the pro-Nazi Arabs than any other democracy. (Just a sidenote, hehe). It was either a swastika or the iron cross. Either way someone would ***** at Wolfie.

[facistdictator]

Hey wolfshanze do you eventually plan on making other goverments as well or not. Just curious.

[Wolfshanze]

Fascism vs the Republic

Well, Fascism is actually based on the Republic (loosely), and I modeled it to be sort of a more "modern republic"... as stated before, perhaps a mercantile type government.

Any statistic you look at with Fascism is either equal to, or better than Republic. There is not a single instance where Republic is better than Fascism (well, perhaps with conquered peoples, but as far as production/science and anything else, Fascism is equal or better).

Worker rate under Fascism is the same as Republic, corruption is the same as Republic, the only differances is that Fascism has forced labor instead of "buying off" production, and of course, Fascism has no war weariness and gets free support for a decent amount of units.

As for more government types in the future, it's not really on the schedule for the Fascist Patch mostly for two reasons...
#1: I can't really think of another major government type that I could effectively model that wouldn't be "redundant" to another pre-existing government type Civ3 rule-wise
#2: mostly, my next changes would be to ensure all units are properly balanced as I already fixed naval units, I'd like to take a closer look at aircraft, but won't touch them until I've fully looked into it, like I did with naval units... they are at least now better balanced than the obviously screwy naval units (think Privateer). I'd also like to add a new tech or two (mostly the tech advance of "Fascism").
#3: and probably most importantly... I've run out of time to work on the Fascist Patch, or the Pacific General Armory, or any other game for that matter. My job has caught up with me... old Wolfy is heading to the Middle East for a bit... I'll be out of pocket for a while on gaming! Leaving very soon, so when my posts cease to exist, you'll know what happened to me!

[Riso]

Origins of the Swastika, for everyone not in the know.

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~sidneys/Swastika.htm

[dannyevilcat]

new better icons

Since I wasn't thrilled about the crappy fasces icons I posted earlier, I totally re-did them.

So here is the new and GREATLY improved fasces icons. (they really are much, much better. Download!