Your SID level experiences

[ErikM]

And our Maginot line:

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Dominae
The AI definitely builds Curraghs on Sid level. Still no suicide behaviour though (of course).


Dominae

I have seen a few mention that they do, but have yet to see any in my games or anyone elses screenies so far. That is not conclusive, but it is surely not common.

Of course that is not a big deal at Sid as they will have gallies quite soon, even if isolated.

It could be that by the time I see the gallies, they have scrapped curraghs, but that is not the AI style. So I presume they skiped them, at least in my games.

Did you see them in beta or in the patched game?

[vmxa1]

ErikM could you include the full mini map window. Then we can see the map and the date for a better idea of the situation.

[Dominae]

If the Sid AI starts with Alphabet, you can be pretty sure it will build Curraghs. You can check this out for yourself by playing a couple of games in Debug mode.


Dominae

[ErikM]

Originally posted by vmxa1
ErikM could you include the full mini map window. Then we can see the map and the date for a better idea of the situation.

It's a couple of posts above. The year is 1750BC.

How do I include a complete screenshot, BTW? I tried to post a full map view, but it tells me "the screenshot is too big, max image size is 800x0" when I try to upload it.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by ErikM

It's a couple of posts above. The year is 1750BC.

How do I include a complete screenshot, BTW? I tried to post a full map view, but it tells me "the screenshot is too big, max image size is 800x0" when I try to upload it.

I just use Irfanview and resize to 800 and save as Jpeg.

Looks like this:

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Dominae
If the Sid AI starts with Alphabet, you can be pretty sure it will build Curraghs. You can check this out for yourself by playing a couple of games in Debug mode.


Dominae

I will try to get in a shot, but I almost always have a civ with Alpha.

The screen below is America, IIRC they have it from being expansionist. They had gallies and no curraghs when I found them.

I thought of another possibility. Maybe they lost theirs to barbs.
I know I lost even Dromon's to barbs at Sid.
I can see why some play with no barbs, as even sedintary can maul you from their camps and ships. I am losing elite horses.

A straight up vet Drom, lost to a barb galley. I never used them before, but I kept reading they kicked butt in Au501.
The second one went down to barbs as well, but it took two with it. The RNG can be cruel at times. The only time I really went out to sea both curraghs sank.

[vmxa1]

BTW ErikM this shot is 800x600. If you are using a bmp it will be too large.

[vmxa1]

Well I finally got a chance to do a debug run and India made a curragh and was making a second one, so I guess that ends that.

Thanks for the tip.

[ErikM]

Iroquois on the March - part III

1000 BC update.

Statistics:
14 cities, 46 population points.
15 workers, 14 warriors, 3 archers, 1 MW, 2 curragh.
23 slaves (if I counted correctly).

Contacts: all expect England; just spotted English borders.

Techs: all ancient techs except Construction, Currency, Republic, and Monarchy.
Researching Republic with a scientist.
Income 79, corruption 18, +52gpt at 9.0.1, treasury 1656 gold.
Resources: two Dyes, one Silk, two Horses, one Iron (connected by outside cultural borders at the moment).

1 granary, 3 barracks, some libraries are expected soon.
299 shields accumulated towards GreatLib in Niagara Falls; completion expected in 8 turns. No other known civ has Literature yet, so it looks like I'll be able to claim it.

Notes:
After border clashes with Ottomans we captured Izmit using human wave attacks. Lost something like 3 warriors and 1 archer. Soon thereafter we signed peace treaty with Ottomans due to lack of offensive troops. Izmit is important though as it puts Iron strictly inside our borders. Actually it looks like it is a single source of iron on my continent, although there may be some unspotted unconnected Iron.

Meanwhile, Sumerian settlers accumulated near Iroquis borders trying to sneak in. So right after the end of the Turkish affair we asked Sumerians to remove their troops, which not surprisinly led to war. The objective of this war was purely a slave raid + some war happiness. Sumer offensive actions were limited to dropping two horses near Niagara falls which were promptly eliminated. I have signed MAs with Zulus, Ottos, and Aztecs to keep Sumerians occupied elsewhere. The war is still ongoing, but is largely phony.

Meanwhile, our suicidal curragh have reached second continent and made contact with Celts and Mongols. Celts are very much a superpower with 26 (!) cities and all resources including Ivory. Mongols are second on the power graph. England is probably dead as they have lost London (together with the Colossus) to Celts. Celts are currently at war with the Mongols. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do to intervene there.

All ancient wonders except GreatLib were built. Celts have the Colossus (captured from English), the Great Wall, and SoZ. Mongols have the Mausoleum, Zulus - the Great Lighthouse. Sumerians have the rest (Pyramids, ToA, Oracle, and HG).

Sumers, Zulus, Aztecs, Celts, and English had their Golden Age already.

Immediate Plans: finish GL; revolt to Republic (unfortunately nobody has it yet). After revolt I'll try to finish semi-dead Ottomans, start my GA and go after Sumerians.

Screenshot:

[vmxa1]

ErikM the Celts are the type of a situation that is so scary at Sid. One civ runs over all the others on their contient and becomes a monster.

If no other AI is large enough to stay close in culture, you can lose the game, just as you are making a serious move.

[vmxa1]

The first war with the Ottoman, what sort of numbers did you see attacking you?

This is another very dangerous spot. If you get into a war early and have limited units, you can be in real trouble. If the AI comes with 30-40 units in short order, which they often will.

I had a break with one game where it was just me and the mongols on a large land mass. The bad news was they had most of the land and lots of cities and units. The other bad thing is they never had anyone to fight.

The break was they were disorganized and tend to have the units spread out and they had no horses.

In games where I had 3-5 AI's on the landmass, they almost always ran over me early with waves of troops.

You cannot demand they leave or anything as that is war.

[vmxa1]

I broke this up for easier reading. The other point I was wondering about is the cash build up.

The AI always demand tribute from me if I have any money. I have had them demand 9 gold, all I had. The more I had the more they want, so I tend to not pile it up.

There is no way to have as many units as they have in the ancient age. I mean they start with something like 24 to your 0.

They will have 4 or 5 cities up before you get the second most of the time. In short order they will have a dozen cities and will be making units soon in many of them.

Maybe I am doing sometign wrong, well of course I am, but if I do not get an army or two fairly quickly, I find it very hard to stay alive.

So I am looking forward to your reports. BTW I have not tried any of the huge maps to see if that is a better deal or not.

[ErikM]

Originally posted by vmxa1
ErikM the Celts are the type of a situation that is so scary at Sid. One civ runs over all the others on their contient and becomes a monster.

Yes... I have no idea how to deal with them. I obviously cannot fight them before Navigation. They already steamrolled English. The only option available to me is to ally with the Mongols against them, but they already fight them With Ancient Cavalry and Gaelic Swordsman, I am not optimistic about Mongol chances... And they already have 2000 culture

The first war with the Ottoman, what sort of numbers did you see attacking you?

Not much, a couple of warriors and a couple of archers. Izmit was defended by three spearmen. To my luck, they were fighting Zulus when I met them (they still do although half-heartedly). And Zulus kicked their a** once they went into their Golden Age. It's a feature of Sid methinks - AIs start with so many troops that they can start a war pretty much straight away.

In games where I had 3-5 AI's on the landmass, they almost always ran over me early with waves of troops.

That's why I liked this map. There is some room for expansion but I only immediately border Ottomans. And there is a narrow strip of land separating my part of continent from invaders. Still (as you can see from above screenshot) Zulus have managed to sneak in a settler after getting Map Making.

I agree that if you start in the middle of 3-4 AIs there is nada you can do - you cannot outexpand them and they will steamroll you before you can say boo. Ottomans were in this unfortunate position on my map.

There is no doubt imho that any arbitrary map cannot be won at Sid (or even on Deity for that matter). You need a good strategic location for yourself and poor for neigbouring AIs. Neighbouring AIs should also lack resources. If Ottos managed to connect their iron (it's on the mountain near Izmit) I am sure I wouldn't be able to stop them, Zulu help nonwithstanding.

The AI always demand tribute from me if I have any money. I have had them demand 9 gold, all I had. The more I had the more they want, so I tend to not pile it up.

That's another advantage of starting with Alphabet. Once I had Writing I lined up everyone to fight Sumerians. So I did not have any demands yet.

Another substantial change from vanilla Civ (I never had PTW) is this 50-turn min research time. It really slows down your development as min-science research gambits are much less likely to work. That's why I think it is essential to start with Alphabet. On Sid, tech costs are twice higher than on Emperor. So Alphabet costs 300 beakers to research. To research it faster then 50 turns, you need to generate more than 6 beakers per turn. It is next to impossible to get that kind of dough early in the game in the game, so you might as well do 50-turn research. But then you will fall hopelessy behind since AIs will be likely to have all first and second level techs by then.

The best research sequence is imho to start with Alphabet, try to trade for Masonry, and research Mathematics full steam. Frenchies can do it right away and can probably get to Math first. Then trade Math for Writing, prebuild for GL, and research Literature. So choosing French as Bamspeedy did in his game definitely has some merit. But methinks Greeks or Koreans (Sci+Com) or Byzantines (Sea+Sci) might be better. The problem with Iroquois (and French) is that culture is so bloody expensive... Agricultural is a nice trait but you can live without it on a good start. And a good starting spot is a must anyways.

I am looking forward to your reports.

Thanks I don't promise regular updates as I will be busy at work next week especially but I'll definitely try to finish this game (until it is either won or obviously lost, at least).

[vmxa1]

I forget what are the settings. I think it was a huge map and random, right? What are the barbs and how many civs did you end up with in the game (F10). Is it archi or contients, looks contients?

Anyway good luck. I am still mulling over what civ is a good one to use.