FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch

[Arrian]

Re: republic free unit support...

I'm all for it, but it might be too strong. 1/2/3 might be better than 1/3/4. That, plus the 2g per unit over the limit upkeep cost, ought to balance it out.

It's either that or drop the upkeep back to 1g per unit and drop the free unit support... basically taking it back to PTW's version of republic. Frankly, I'd be fine either way.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

With 1 gold per unit for all units Republic is overpowered, full stop. As such the method chosen in Conquests should definitely nerf Republic, at least slightly. The way chosen is only good if its turns out the nerf dominates the buff.

It might, I haven't decided yet.......but I remain unconvinced.

[hobbie_tp]

Hello alexman, here's a screenshot of a game on Marla's map, it's 256x204.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by DrSpike
With 1 gold per unit for all units Republic is overpowered, full stop. As such the method chosen in Conquests should definitely nerf Republic, at least slightly. The way chosen is only good if its turns out the nerf dominates the buff.

It might, I haven't decided yet.......but I remain unconvinced.

Thinking about it a little more after playing tonight I am even more puzzled. Republic has been nerfed early game, and buffed late game. Even if the nerf turns out to dominate this really can't be the way to balance the govts. Republic should be a viable choice before the point in the game it is now, and late game should be dominated by democracy.

Far better would be to increase the corruption gap between the 2 representative govts, but make republic viable earlier than it is now with the 2 gold support per unit.

[alexman]

Or just give Republic a ton of free units (like 30), but no free units per city. That way it becomes great early, but increasingly worse as your empire grows.

Of course then you would have the problem of balancing Monarchy and Republic in the ancient age.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, DrSpike, my solution to the Republic 'Problem' was to have TWO distinct types of Republic-a Classical and Modern Republic! The classical republic is the one you get in the Ancient age! It has lower War weariness and unit support cost, but higher corruption levels AND you have forced labour to hurry production! This simulates the kind of Republic which Ancient Rome and Carthage had! The Modern republic is available with Democracy (along with Democracy Gov.) has higher war weariness and unit support, but lower corruption and has paid labour! Also, each type of republic has it's own unique Small Wonder!

Anyway, I hope this helps you, DrSpike !!

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by alexman
Or just give Republic a ton of free units (like 30), but no free units per city. That way it becomes great early, but increasingly worse as your empire grows.

Of course then you would have the problem of balancing Monarchy and Republic in the ancient age.

Yes, and it doesn't address the distance between Republic and Democracy. I think the best answer lies in increasing the corruption gap between the 2 representative govts. The unit support should stay as in PTW, otherwise Republic is too powerful as compared to Monarchy (like under your scheme) or doesn't come early enough, like the current C3C scheme.

[Catt]

Another Civil Engineer Display Bug

When a city using civil engineeres completes a build project, the drop down list of available builds from the pop-up do not reflect the effect of the CEs, even though once selected the map view of the city (and the city view) will show a build time that includes the CE effects -- and selecting "zoom to city" brings you a view of the proper build times for various builds in the improvement lists.

Should be an easy one since the proper build times are a readily available data point and the algorithm for the drop down build-time is either (i) making a data call to the wrong location, or (ii) is separate (?) from other build-time calculators and has not been updated for the presence of CEs.

Catt

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Actually, DrSpike, my solution to the Republic 'Problem' was to have TWO distinct types of Republic-a Classical and Modern Republic! The classical republic is the one you get in the Ancient age! It has lower War weariness and unit support cost, but higher corruption levels AND you have forced labour to hurry production! This simulates the kind of Republic which Ancient Rome and Carthage had! The Modern republic is available with Democracy (along with Democracy Gov.) has higher war weariness and unit support, but lower corruption and has paid labour! Also, each type of republic has it's own unique Small Wonder!

Anyway, I hope this helps you, DrSpike !!

This suggestion has some merit, but I don't think another govt will be added. Plus modern Republic would not really be differentiated from democracy.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Ummm, DrSpike, look at my suggestion !!! I think the problem with Republic in Civ3, generally, is that the enabling tech occurs around the time of the Roman Republic, yet the government they describe sounds more like our Modern Republics-like the US-which was never how Rome really was! After all, the ROmans and Carthaganians were more warlike, but Probably had big problems with Corruption in their far-flung cities! I doubt that they would have used paid labour to fast track most of their big construction projects either-but I could be wrong on this last point ! Still, I think there should be TWO types of Republic, and possibly even two types of Democracy (Classical and Modern) What do YOU guys think?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[alexman]

Originally posted by DrSpike

Yes, and it doesn't address the distance between Republic and Democracy.

It does, actually, because of the 2gpt unit mainenance.

But let's leave this discussion for another thread. It's likely that the designers will not do anything drastic to the Republic in a patch, especially not adding new governments, without testing it extensively first.

[Jon Miller]

how would you differentiate them?

Jon Miller

[DrSpike]

Agreed. I wont ruin your easy fixes thread.

[Greg1]

In the Civ editor, if you choose an icon for a unit, you ought to automatically get the associated animation. If the animation is not available, then the icon should not be offered. As things stand, a guy like me who knows nothing about programming can't write scenarios using the animations that the various scenarios do (unless I modify the scenario, but that has its own limitations).

[Gramphos]

Animations are not assosiatec with icons, but with the Civliopedia Entry...