New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[germanos]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
germanos,
but I don't understand why did you start the war as a temporary player? And why didn't you answer when I asked you about it first time?

Because I'm not a temporary player. I find it quite an insult you call me that after playing the full two and a half years of this game.

[SlowThinker]

germanos,
I am sorry, I didn't want to insult you. The word 'temporary' was meant from point of view that looks in the future and neglects the past.
I really don't know what is the correct english word, maybe 'transitory'?
I think that as a player who played all the game since its start you have full right to stop anytime and do anything. But if you take into consideration a good course of the game you could weigh what is more reasonable and what is less.
So decide yourself if you want to make next turn or let it for Zedd.

Zedd,
you are our redeemer. In past Hittite and Persian civ were Ctrl-N ed many turns because of lack of a player and I couldn't imagine that with Assyria.
On the first page there is a download of the PBEM version and a link to our current house rules.

[SlowThinker]

Zedd - a good trick is to download the thread as 'show printable version' and to save it. Then you can read a complete discussion easily, to use the 'find' order ...

Aargh - I am slowthinker - Zedd, you were the Hittite leader ... but time passed ... so I hope this is not a problem.

[SlowThinker]

Another problem on the horizon: Straybow is offline last 11 days.

Since germanos is leaving I think we should open the cases of
1) looking at civs of allies
2) playing a civ of an ally (in case of a necessity only)

Need of 2) : it is clear
Need of 1) : imagine Assyria attacks boh Hittites and Minoans, it is Minoan turn and Straybow is out. LF need to know what happened in Hittiteland.
(could anybody tell me correct words?
Americans-America-American
Hittites-?-Hittite
Minoans-?-Minoan)

From my point of view there is only one problem: you can't be a double agent - i.e. to pretend you are allied and prepare a sneak attack or similar bad things.

[germanos]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
germanos,
I am sorry, I didn't want to insult you. The word 'temporary' was meant from point of view that looks in the future and neglects the past.
I really don't know what is the correct english word, maybe 'transitory'?

I had three options:
1) quit immediately when my turn is due
2) don't attack you when I had allready done so before the turn needed a replay (and thus gaining a lot of extra info on Babylonian positions), and quit immediately after that.
3) done what I did.

I don't see why you have such a problem with me posting a save that would have been posted as well if I had not decided to leave. It was completed 75% allready.
So I don't think 'transitory'would fit the description either. You have a regular save from a player that decides to leave in two months.

I'll post the next save, and you guys can figure out yourselfs what to do with it.

[Peaster]

Kudos to Germanos for staying with the game this long and taking Assyria to #1 (IMO). You will be missed.

You told me it is very unlikely that a departing player would leave instructions, but even a few sentences would probably be very helpful to Zedd.

I am fairly neutral about the allies issue, but would prefer to see Sparrowhawk do the honors, if he agrees. I wonder if we could find other volunteers to help out occasionally? I don't see the problem about Straybow though .... his turn is probably not up for another week or two, right?


Mr English Language Person speaks:

1) I have two friends who are English professors; neither has heard of "nark". However, everyone likes the word. To me, "seriously narked" sounds better than "narked seriously".

2) Americans America American
Hittiites Hattas Hittite
Minoans Minos (or "Crete") Minoan

Not sure about "Hattas" - just saw it somewhere in this thread. My pocket history of the world refers to their land as "what is now Anatolia in Turkey" or as simply "the Hittite Empire".

According to Burns, they "all had enormous hooked noses, receding foreheads, and slanting eyes" and are considered to be related to the Greeks. The secret of their language "was unlocked during WWI by the Czech scholar Bedrich Hrozny". Their civ resembles the Old Babylonian more than any other.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by germanos
2) don't attack you when I had allready done so before the turn needed a replay (and thus gaining a lot of extra info on Babylonian positions), and quit immediately after that.

OK, I didn't perceive you decided to leave AFTER you started the war.
Now I can blame you only that you didn't answer my question if the attack signifies you decided to stay in the game. But in fact I cannot complain: since you didn't answer I supposed you were staying and I had more fun from the last turn.
After some study of dictionaries I see transitory is not good either. I wanted to say something like 'ending' or 'finishing its existence'.
Just wondering: since you are leaving definitely: will you open the save and look on the world?

Zedd, I know I said we would prefer that new player continues germanos' way of playing, but I think we cannot force you in a style that you don't like. You inherited a kingdom that is in given status. You are the new leader and it is only your decision how you will continue.

Originally posted by germanos
I'll post the next save, and you guys can figure out yourselfs what to do with it.

Thank you.
Zedd, I think it should be your decision where you want to start - from the Babylonian save (and play your own 2830 Assyrian turn) or from the germanos save.
But perceive you cannot replay if you open the original 2830 Assyrian save (from germanos).

Originally posted by Peaster
I am fairly neutral about the allies issue, but would prefer to see Sparrowhawk do the honors, if he agrees.

Do you mean Ctrl-N?

Edit: the bold text for Zedd

[Peaster]

Sorry - I meant that Shadowhawk could play the missing player's turn. I would not be bothered that he has seen the other positions, and I'd trust him to play in a reasonable way... better than Control-N, but not with god-like insights.

But I am not sure what situations you had in mind. What is wrong with the status quo? Also, what were you saying about Straybow?

IMO Assyria belongs to Germanos until tomorrow. If he posts today, let's use his save. If he delays, then 2830BC is Zedd's.

BTW - Does Assyria have a password? If not, Zedd can start looking over recent Assyrian positions [something I wish I could have done with Persia].

[SlowThinker]

I think the only passworded civs were Egypt and Persia. Only if germanos added a password recently(?)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Peaster
Also, what were you saying about Straybow?

My post is 4 posts before your post...

I meant that Shadowhawk could play the missing player's turn.

Yes, this is point 2) of my post 4 posts before your post. I wanted to say an ally should be allowed to play a turn if there is no Shadow or Sun or anybody else to be a sub. It is not ideal but better than Ctrl-N. But Shadow should be always prefered. IMO.

Originally posted by Peaster
What is wrong with the status quo?

Status quo is unknown. Several pages ago there is a debate where germanos objects both points 1) and 2), Kull is neutral with 1) and prefers to allow 2). But no conclusion.
(If you want to see the debate more detailedly, load all the thread ('printthread mode')): the debate starts by 'Posted by Straybow on 20-10-2004 10:12:'.

IMO Assyria belongs to Germanos until tomorrow. If he posts today, let's use his save.

I only think if Zedd wants to continue very peacefully ... then he should rather replay ... especially because germanos has no objections against it.

[Peaster]

ST - I don't care about any of these legal issues very much, and will let them go. But I'd like to understand what you were saying about Straybow. Were you saying that you haven't heard from him for awhile [which doesn't seem too serious to me] or saying more - that you are sure there is a problem coming?

[Zedd]

If germanos will be returning (which doesn't look likely) Then I will certainly play as he has laid out.

If not returning I will continue to play similarly long enough to get my own feel for the game and then continue in my own style of play.

I do need some information on the game, allies, Treaties, agreements, etc. Any one with this info could PM me to let me know.
If germanos has the opportunity It would be nice to get a PM with any tips and plans he had laid out.


Also, and most importantly, what is the turn order? It looks like germanos has allready posted his latest save and out of respect I insist that that one be used. I will carry on afterwards to the best of my abilities.

[Sparrowhawk]

Not sure about Treaties and Agreements, but the Assyrians are allied with the Babylonians

Turn Order:
Straybow (Hittite) - White
SlowThinker (Babylonian) - Green
Germanos/Zedd (Assyria) - Blue
Kull (Egypt) - Yellow
Peaster (Persian) - Light Blue
Kengel (Greek) - Orange
La Fayette (Minoan) - Purple

_______________________________________

Last note, with all the talk of Shadow and Sun, I just wanted to tell you about one Sparrow that is afraid of the dark.........good thing the Hawk is not



/me the poster previously known as Shadowhawk

[Straybow]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
BTW, PM tracking system says Straybow is out one week, did anybody hear about him?

I had a really bad week or so. Money was lost, then relocated.

Adjusting cleaning and sleeping activities for new roommate (haven't had one for years). Had to move alot of my "junk" from common areas to my bedroom.

[And PS: Hittites allied with Minoans]

[germanos]

save will be up later today.

Don't blame me, a debate popped up if I should even play my turn.

ST, you never asked if I would stay, you made assumptions and insulted me with degrading me to a temporary player who shouldn't act as I did.
To such things I have not much to say, so I saved myself the effort and time.

Peaster (and Zedd):

You told me it is very unlikely that a departing player would leave instructions, but even a few sentences would probably be very helpful to Zedd.

I never told you such a thing, I said that (certainly in this game) people drop out at an instance, and thus don't leave instructions for their substitutes.
I'll happily give Zedd my point of view of the game. This is exactly why I announced my departure, and decided to keep governing my Civ even though I had lost my appetite for the game.

Despite of the blames flying around, I have acted in the interest of the game (IMO) to exactly do what I would have done if I had not decided to leave. If players have thought I declared war because I would leave, or if the war meant I would stay, then that is their own assumptions.