Peace in our times

[McMonkey]

Yeah, I need to work out what to do about that. Spain, Finland and Bulgaria had no heavy armaments industry worth mentioning. Romania produced some aircraft and armoured vehicles and Hungary produced some serviceable designs on a small scale. I have included a twice removed tech NO AXIS so that selected German or Italian equipment can be produced by the Dictatorships. I may allow them to produce Italian tanks and aircraft which will be of a slightly inferior quality to the German equipment and maybe the German light Panzer. Though not 100% historically accurate it would seem to fit the bill.

One point worth mentioning is that the Dictatorships do not necessarily have to ally themselves with the Axis. They could decide to stay neutral or even join forces with the Soviets, though not in Spain! Oh, and I intend to play as the Dictatorships in the first PBEM. I think they will be tough to play as but a lot of fun. There is also a bit of role play involved as Finland and Nationalist Spain will be run as separate entities from Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.

[Eurisko]

When do you roughly plan on starting this PBEM?

As I said I'll probably be gone from early August until the end of August.

And if the PBEM starts after that, I'd much rather take a more important civ than the US.

My preferences would be:

1. Germany
2. Britain
3. Soviets
4. US

In case any of those civs need players by the time the PBEM starts.

[McMonkey]

I would hope to have this ready within the next few weeks but in my experience things always take a lot longer than I plan

[Eurisko]

Actually, I'd like to change my order of preference.

1. Britain
2. Germany
3. US
4. USSR

So Jerec, if you'd like to try a different civ this time around I'd gladly take over the Brits.

And yes, it's probably going to take a while to make a playable beta of this scenario, but I can already see that it's going to be great.

Just one more suggestion: The Maginot Line bunkers should have Paris as their home city so that it disbands with the fall of France.

[McMonkey]

Good point. I will start making some of the suggested changes now

[McMonkey]

Jerec, you said: "The Anti-Aircraft Rgt has a D of 12, to be 2x when attacked by aircraft. It's ability to attack aircraft take away the bonus it would get from the Anti Aircraft Battery improvement. In that case, Infantry are better defenders, with D 18 x2."

Would this only apply if the AA Regiment attacks a fighter or will it still apply when they are defending within a city with SAM?

[Eurisko]

Units with the fighter flag do not receive the SAM defense bonus but have their own defense multipliers against other aircraft.

I think the AEGIS flag remains unaffected and still adds to the defense, though I might be wrong.

Outside of cities, though, all that matters is the AEGIS flag.

[Jerec]

Originally posted by McMonkey
5, The Jager division is intended only for the Finns. This will be covered in the house rules. I may rename them Finnish Infantry.

Please rename them. Jager is German.

6, I am considering making Diplomats non spy units. They can monitor troop movements but not look in cities. They will have the alpine flag and players should avoid blocking roads with them. I will go into more detail about their role later on.

Isn't that the Recon Rgt's job?

7, There will be a batch file for updating the graphics but at the moment I don't intend to update the rules file as the game progresses. When everything else is finished I may look at multiple rules files.

It will work without a bat file, but I like the idea of older tanks/military machines getting obsolete, and the player being forced to build new replacements. But this would require a hierarchy of stats...so don't bother. Too much work.

8, I have used Pablostukas's SCW as a guide for unit allotments in Spain and the two navies were fairly equal. I will double check to see if this was the case historically.

It was most likely my imagination.

...but if the war plays out historically with Britain, the USA and the USSR battering Germany from all directions then they will probably need the veteran troops to stand a chance.

I think so too. One more thing to consider- whoever takes the wonder (Russia/Britain/USA) will have the advantage. So copy what Case did- put in events so that if US/Britain/Russia takes Warsaw, they get a tech obsoleting the "Blitz Experience."

So Jerec, if you'd like to try a different civ this time around I'd gladly take over the Brits.

Sure. I'll take the USA.

Would this only apply if the AA Regiment attacks a fighter or will it still apply when they are defending within a city with SAM?

If the AA attacks a fighter, D doesn't matter. If defending, only the fighter multiplier and the Aegis flag matter.

Units with the fighter flag do not receive the SAM defense bonus but have their own defense multipliers against other aircraft.

Ah yes. I forgot about that. IIRC the fighter multiplier when defending in a city is either 4x or 8x. So the Anti Aircraft unit is the better defender.

[Eurisko]

IIRC, units with the fighter flag have x4 defense against air units with range != 1 (ie helicopters and bombers in vanilla Civ 2) when attacked within a city.

I don't know how accurate this is, though.

And yes, it seems that the flak defends first against air raids, although fighters apparently also randomly defend first every now and then. Strange.

[McMonkey]

The role of the diplomat is to keep tabs on the other side during peace times and the more powerful Recon (Spy) unit is for scouting defences during battle. The idea is for each country to be permitted one diplomat in each other country that needs monitoring. For example Britain could have a diplomat in Germany watching for suspicious troop movements. If Germany decides to expel the British diplomat then something must be in the offing and tension rises. Diplomats can also be deployed in Neutral countries, such as Greece, where they can keep an eye on possible hostile moves. This will give them time to prepare an expeditionary force to intervene. I will need to figure out the precise diplomatic rules to cover all situations.


If it turns out that the Diplomat idea does not work I will replace it with another type of unit. I will see how the concept works out during testing!

Jagers will be renamed Finnish Infantry

I decided to go with the unit system for several reasons. One was based on my experience in Appeasement. I found that some of the weaker units were not worth building at all and I just built Regular Infantry until the better units became available. I wanted all the available units to have pros and cons and for the player to need to build them all to create a combined arms force. Also the units are Divisions or Brigades instead of specific unit types. The Light Armour could be a T-26, a BT-7 or a T-34 but they all preform the same role.

I will vary the stats to reflect the advantages and disadvantages of different nations. If I had a lot more unit space I would include more incremental step ups in unit technology but MGE has its limits.

Obsoleting the Blitzkrieg experience if anyone other than the Germans take it may be a wise plan. If the Soviets take it they will probably be very strong anyway!

I have finished placing the industrial terrain today and will check the food output next. If a city is producing too much I will swap some of the Grassland around it for Plains. I guess an average of 3-5 surplus would allow for some growth. I'm getting there step by step.

Things seem to be going well. We already have three players and the game is not even built yet

[Eurisko]

I just had an interesting idea for the diplomat unit.

Why not turn it into an OSS/SOE operative unit in the spy slot and with the house rule that they may not bribe cities and units or or nuke a city, but can perform minor, realistic acts of sabotage such as destroying a city improvement, poisoning the water supply, razing factories, roads and farmlands? It could also function as an auxilliary "resistance" unit when the Brits or Americans manage to sneak it in behind enemy lines, then you could consider it Allies-supported French partisans wreaking havoc on German supply lines, as they historically did. Especially the British SOE was very active in Nazi-occupied France, with many of its own operatives and supply lines to the French resistance, often equipping them with explosives and the like.

It could have the "paratrooper," "alpine" and "submarine" flags so that it could easily and without much danger of detection move behind enemy lines, but the German infantry should be given the "can spot submarines" flag representing Sicherheitsdienst operatives who can spot the OSS/SOE agents and deal with them.

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by Eurisko
Why not turn it into an OSS/SOE operative unit in the spy slot and with the house rule that they may not bribe cities and units or or nuke a city, but can perform minor, realistic acts of sabotage such as destroying a city improvement, poisoning the water supply, razing factories, roads and farmlands?

One doesn't need house rules to enable "that they may not bribe cities and units or or nuke a city, but can perform minor, realistic acts of sabotage such as destroying a city improvement, poisoning the water supply, razing factories". That can be done in game.txt.

However, a unit with role=diplomacy cannot carry out any type of pillage.

[Eurisko]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA


One doesn't need house rules to enable "that they may not bribe cities and units or or nuke a city, but can perform minor, realistic acts of sabotage such as destroying a city improvement, poisoning the water supply, razing factories". That can be done in game.txt.

However, a unit with role=diplomacy cannot carry out any type of pillage.

True, I remember scenarios where, for example, bribing cities or stealing techs was deactivated.

And I thought the only criteria for a unit being able to pillage was an attack value >0?

[AGRICOLA]

And I thought the only criteria for a unit being able to pillage was an attack value >0?

You are absolutely right. I just tested it.

I didn't know that.

[McMonkey]

That is indeed a good idea. If I could think up a suitable name for the unit they could operate as a Diplomat in peace times and change roles during a war.

All you need to do to limit the functions of spies for human players is a bit of minor editing in the GAME text file.