POMARJ Development Thread

[curtsibling]

The game has a nice start, and you should be able to fully
weather that first turn, by a narrow margin at least...

It is a bummer losing those hero units, especially the wizard!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Arthedain
Just made a second attempt. A very smooth first turn. But onthe AI's counterattack, the two deamons killed Finvil and Wilfried instantly and my city turned size one. I must come up with a trick to lure the demons somewhere else.

There is a trick with those demons! If you play it right, they won't bother you at all!

It's all a matter of timing! (I won't say more right now, but if you really can't find it, PM me! )

Edit: Or maybe the player should be able to build fortifications? They're always destroyed during the capture of Blue.

In my playtest they were not always destroyed (about 50% of the time).

But maybe giving that tech from the start (or rather changing the pre-requisite to Fortress which is already possessed and allow Pioneer to build... fortress) might be a possibility??

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
By the gods, this is a hard scen!

Really ??

Sadistic types will love this, as it punishes the player quite harshly...

But I would advise making the heroes a bit harder on
defence...Somewhere near the red dragon's stats...

Yes, it might be an idea, but then I am afraid that if I do then the other units will be near useless (and as it is now, the heroes are already precious enough, aren't they??).

I was wiped out within 20 turns! Holy crap!

At least you didn't lose too much time playing it...

TBH, it was my performance on my first try too!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
The game has a nice start, and you should be able to fully
weather that first turn, by a narrow margin at least...

Hint: don't rush too much on the first turn, plan!!

It is a bummer losing those hero units, especially the wizard!

Yes, if you lose 1 or more Hero at the start, you've got no chance to advance!

Here is an idea, rather than uping the hero's defence:

I could for each of the 4 heroes make an event recreating the unit in Blue upon its death, but working only once!

And that could easily fit in an AD&D scenario (Raise Dead anybody?? )

That could solve the problem of the consequences of losing a hero due to bad luck...

Of course, for that I would need to make room in the event file which is already packed to the brim...

So tell me what you think, because I think this could be a major point which I woudl like to implement quickly (if I do implement it)

[curtsibling]

If that fits with the D&D world, you could give the player a chance to regain those guys...

If they are lost a 2nd time, well - Tough cheese!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
If that fits with the D&D world, you could give the player a chance to regain those guys...

It really does!

If they are lost a 2nd time, well - Tough cheese!

My thought exactly!

So let's find what I can remove from the events...

I'll make an update this week (but I don't know when as I'm awfully busy...)

Anyway the current version is still worth testing!

[DarkCloud]

Sorry this took so long- I was running it through the "whole nine yards"

Comments were made as I played... so you can see an evolution in understanding of the game. Hopefully this will show you how a new player approaches the game
---

Comments made based on Prince Level
-DC.

Playtest 1 Comments

1.) The title intro screen is too long for a 800x600 or a 1024x768 screen. I couldn't see the [OK/CANCEL] command. I did manage to move onwards by pressing ENTER however...

2.) Maybe I was playing wrong/badly, but I moved all my ships and flying untis to the BLUE city as recommended and attacked. After I conquered the city, I unloaded everyone into it. However, the partisans/enemies were very powerful and somehow destroyed my civilization on their turn.

3.) (NEVER MIND)

Playtest 2 Comments

4.) The second time I played, I lost 1 ranger, 2 halbeirders, 1 copper dragon, and wilfried on the turn that I took Blue...(they were killed while in the city walls.) And Blue's population decreased from 5 on the turn I captured to 4 when I had it, to 1 on the turn that it was attacked by the Orcs.

On Week 3 pirates attacked and killed 4 more units.

After landing on Week 4, I lost 6 units.

Week 7 the warship was sunk.

Week 9 my city was destroyed- with 3 units (Including Fingolfin) still in it.

5.) Every turn it seemed that Barrier has developed Foreign Embassy... IT was getting quite annoying by Week 8.

Playtest 3 Comments

6.) I did a little better on Warlord level- until on Week 4 the pirates sunk both of the transports on the same turn... even after I had eliminated 3 pirate ships!

Thankfully Blue remained at size 4 this time and I was actually able to hold it a few turns.

On week 7 when about 6 enemies sprouted out of nowhere, I nearly lost Fingolfin!
Then on week 11, I lost him to a Giant- even though he had full health at the time.

The week 13 spawn nearly did me in...'

On week 20, I built a granary.

Week 27 spawn was annoying. I honestly can't get out from the city because of these spawns and don't know how long they'll go on... if I knew why they were happening or could defend myself against them, then I'd leave- but I have no idea... One or two or three spawns are good- but too many make it impossible to expand.

7.) I really enjoy the people-art in the cities.

8.) I don't know if the "none shall pass" sound for Willifred is really appropriate... if only because it brings to mind Gandalf- it's too cliche nowadays, I think.

*Answers to your questions: As of week 45 the humanoid AI keeps attacking me. It's an endless wave of attackers stretching back across the continent. My city can't produce much and I don't have any time to let up. I founded a colony on the northern peninsula and it has yet to be attacked in all 15 turns of its existence. Blue, however, is always under attack.

*As for the pirates; after turn 25, I destroyed most of them and they didn't bother me any more. Maybe you should start them a few squares higher than they currently are. They are easily destroyed by the warship (but only IF the warship attacks first), and they wrack hell on the transports... And I'll acknowledge this- yes, the warship should be defending the transports BUT the pirates come out of nowhere with no warning at all... AND in the early turns every battle-ready unit is needed to defend/attack Blue, so the warship can't be making journeys.

*Maybe you could include in your readme a little guide to the tech tree- that is- something that provides one suggested path for creating more trade/etc. just to speed up the learning curve a bit... just a small suggestion.

*And this is probably an error in my game rather than yours- since it occurs in all the games I play- but no one will negotiate with me at all... not even my ally... who tells me that he would no sooner negotiate with me than be stabbed in the back. Also, it's a little unclear why I have any allies... Maybe an event could explain some more of the history to the player? Or the allies could share maps or something.

*It is a little unclear that the evil brown people holding Blue aren't the green team... since they have green city names- could their colors be standardized?

Playtest 4 Comments

*The silver dragon should have a longer move-radius... as it is- the only way to retain the dragon is to conquer Blue by turn 2... In my 4th playtest, I conquered Twin Fangs instead (it was easier to conquer and I suffered fewer casualties). Allowing the dragon to exist longer gives the player more options and freedom with the game.

1.) Lost the warship to pirates on turn 3.
Lost Wilifred on week 5 to a pirate ship... somehow... While I was besieging Blue.
Captured Blue on Week 6
Lost Copper Dragon Week 6.
Cheated and recreated Wilifred on Week 6 to make up for the lost Silver Dragon that shouldn't have been lost...
Week 10- Giant Kills Oberon.

(Were the heroes really supposed to die this fast?)

Week 10- started building road between the two cities.
Week 11- Giant kills Wilifred IN Blue.

*Note: I think that Wilifred's defense should go up by one.

Week 18- Cheated and recreated Cooper Dragon.

*Note: I was a little bit annoyed where hte Paynim Raiders spawned on Week 32- they're so far away... not worth retrieving with so many pirates in the region.

*Note: I have a peace treaty with the Kobolds... Is this right?

Week 46 Demons kept cropping up- this put an end to my colony on the northern peninsula... I had no heroes there and one Demon took out 6 troops and a city.

---
Final Remarks
I'm not very good at games, so my words should be taken with a grain of salt- but I sadly find it impossible to advance and move forward in this game. I can't get out of Blue and the other city at all... the enemy's troops are too powerful for me to be able to risk my few units.

*I have no comments about merchants because by turn 50, I still hadn't gotten any and had only researched 3 techs.

*The Suloese just sit in their cities.

*The Humanoids make a beeline towards Blue, but nowhere else, therefore my southern city was completely impregnable.

*I enjoyed how this game was different from most games of civ- in that it was more adventure-oriented and less about city/unit-building... More about tactics than strategy, etc.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Arthedain
Just made a second attempt. A very smooth first turn. But onthe AI's counterattack, the two deamons killed Finvil and Wilfried instantly and my city turned size one. I must come up with a trick to lure the demons somewhere else.

Edit: Or maybe the player should be able to build fortifications? They're always destroyed during the capture of Blue.

The fortifications are not always destroyed. Sometimes they survive. Sometimes the fishing grounds are destroyed which makes it difficult to keep Blue at a decent size. I presume this is the civilization game engine rather than part of the scenario.

In terms of survival, my best so far is 115 weeks. I've never got beyond 5 cities though. It's difficult to build strong enough defenders.

I don't understand the arrival of additional units - adventurers, legions, mages, white dragons, copper dragons. They appear from time to time in Blue. It would be helpful (and atmospheric) if a message appeared explaing why. Similarly a message of lament for a dead hero would be good.

I've probably missed something, but the pioneers and the refugees seem to be the same.

Also, although the graphics for the faces in the city screen are good, it is very difficult to distinguish whether they are red, dark blue or light blue. On one turn when Blue was celebrating, I couldn't see very much difference.

On a similar topic, I suggest that to help people like me, you have a default tax setting of 60 - 40 tax and research (no luxury).

And another thing - is there a way to change government? I never found it!

RJM at Sleeper's

PS. I agree with DarkCloud's comments about the Paynim Raiders. I did collect one, and it was quite a useful unit, but too far away to bother with. It seemed to respawn on death, but maybe that was coincidence.

[Cyrion]

First of all, thanks for your long comments! They'll be really useful!

And so my reply will be long too!

First of all, it seems I was a bit too hasty in my playtest release, not because of the way the scenario works, but because of the explanations needed to play and which I hadn't bothered to write yet...

So after this post, and the answer to rjm, I'll write a 3rd post explaining a few things!

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Comments were made as I played... so you can see an evolution in understanding of the game. Hopefully this will show you how a new player approaches the game

Yes, it does, and it's really helpful!

Playtest 1 Comments

1.) The title intro screen is too long for a 800x600 or a 1024x768 screen. I couldn't see the [OK/CANCEL] command. I did manage to move onwards by pressing ENTER however...

Will be corrected

2.) Maybe I was playing wrong/badly, but I moved all my ships and flying untis to the BLUE city as recommended and attacked. After I conquered the city, I unloaded everyone into it. However, the partisans/enemies were very powerful and somehow destroyed my civilization on their turn.

There is a trick that allows to lighten the counter-attack significantly! Guess where some of the counter-attacking units are homed...

Playtest 2 Comments

5.) Every turn it seemed that Barrier has developed Foreign Embassy... IT was getting quite annoying by Week 8.

Yeah, I find it really annoying too! Is there a way to remove the message??

Playtest 3 Comments

6.) I did a little better on Warlord level- until on Week 4 the pirates sunk both of the transports on the same turn... even after I had eliminated 3 pirate ships!

The humanoids have a few ships from the start, and some get spawned from time to time!

I never was really bothered by them in my tests, once I had seen where their attack came from and kept watch there! Anyway, you'll need to be cautious at sea...

...
Week 27 spawn was annoying. I honestly can't get out from the city because of these spawns and don't know how long they'll go on... if I knew why they were happening or could defend myself against them, then I'd leave- but I have no idea... One or two or three spawns are good- but too many make it impossible to expand.

Actually they are not spawns (except for a few exceptions), but units that are built by the humanoids!

And yes, advancing, though difficult, is possible!

7.) I really enjoy the people-art in the cities.

They are Curt's

8.) I don't know if the "none shall pass" sound for Willifred is really appropriate... if only because it brings to mind Gandalf- it's too cliche nowadays, I think.

I agree on that! I'll post a list of still needed sounds on another post! Please help!

...
Blue, however, is always under attack.

That's one of the few instances where the AI behaves exactly like I want!

*As for the pirates; after turn 25, I destroyed most of them and they didn't bother me any more. Maybe you should start them a few squares higher than they currently are. They are easily destroyed by the warship (but only IF the warship attacks first), and they wrack hell on the transports... And I'll acknowledge this- yes, the warship should be defending the transports BUT the pirates come out of nowhere with no warning at all... AND in the early turns every battle-ready unit is needed to defend/attack Blue, so the warship can't be making journeys.

Actually, they don't appear in the middle of your operations, but somewhere on the map border! If you keep watch (easier said than done...), you should be able to spot them before they disrupt anything!

Your White Dragon might be useful for that??

*Maybe you could include in your readme a little guide to the tech tree- that is- something that provides one suggested path for creating more trade/etc. just to speed up the learning curve a bit... just a small suggestion.

Yes, sorry I didn't . I'll include that in my afore-mentioned post!

*And this is probably an error in my game rather than yours- since it occurs in all the games I play- but no one will negotiate with me at all... not even my ally... who tells me that he would no sooner negotiate with me than be stabbed in the back. Also, it's a little unclear why I have any allies... Maybe an event could explain some more of the history to the player? Or the allies could share maps or something.

There is an event preventing any negociation between the civs! But I'll need to remove the message, and explain what the various civs are and can do!

Again, sorry for this lack of explanation, I was too eager to see what others thought about my work...

*It is a little unclear that the evil brown people holding Blue aren't the green team... since they have green city names- could their colors be standardized?

Yes, thanks for notifying!

Playtest 4 Comments

*The silver dragon should have a longer move-radius... as it is- the only way to retain the dragon is to conquer Blue by turn 2... In my 4th playtest, I conquered Twin Fangs instead (it was easier to conquer and I suffered fewer casualties). Allowing the dragon to exist longer gives the player more options and freedom with the game.

Found an easy way to solve that: I'll replace the fortress on the eastern island by a soon-to-be-renamed airbase; thus, the White Dragon can stay longer, and the island could then even be used as a base for patrolling in search of pirates!

What dou you think, would that do it??

...
(Were the heroes really supposed to die this fast?)
...
*Note: I think that Wilifred's defense should go up by one.

As I wrote in answer to Curt, I'll modify the events so that the heroes respawn ONCE if they are killed!

I would prefer not too touch their stats unless it's really necessary, because they already are much stronger than your other units!

But I might just up their defense by 1, if all testers think it necessary??

Anyway, here is an hint: make it so that the heroes always end their turn on good defensive terrain!

*Note: I was a little bit annoyed where hte Paynim Raiders spawned on Week 32- they're so far away... not worth retrieving with so many pirates in the region.

Yes, retrieving them isn't worth it in itself, but the Wild Coast City of Elredd is close to them, and so it could be interesting to combine trade delivery and unit retrieving!

See explanative post below for hints on trade!

*Note: I have a peace treaty with the Kobolds... Is this right?

See explanative post below for hints on civs!

Final Remarks
I'm not very good at games, so my words should be taken with a grain of salt- but I sadly find it impossible to advance and move forward in this game. I can't get out of Blue and the other city at all... the enemy's troops are too powerful for me to be able to risk my few units.

Hopefully with my explanations + some modifications this will change!

Thanks a lot for your very thorough testing!

*The Suloese just sit in their cities.

See explanative post below for hints on civs!

*I enjoyed how this game was different from most games of civ- in that it was more adventure-oriented and less about city/unit-building... More about tactics than strategy, etc.

Thanks! Now I just need to adjust it to make it playable...

[Cyrion]

Thanks for your comments, which call for a few answers!

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
The fortifications are not always destroyed. Sometimes they survive. Sometimes the fishing grounds are destroyed which makes it difficult to keep Blue at a decent size. I presume this is the civilization game engine rather than part of the scenario.

Yes, it comes from the engine, not the scenario! There is nothing I can do about it!

I did add a few happiness building in Blue as this is what the AI likes to destroy the most, in the hope that the walls would then be spared...

In terms of survival, my best so far is 115 weeks. I've never got beyond 5 cities though. It's difficult to build strong enough defenders.

Yes, BUILDING good units isn't difficult, it's impossible!

The way to get new units is mainly through tech research: once you discover certain techs, units are created in Blue or elsewhere!

More about that in the explanative post below!

I don't understand the arrival of additional units - adventurers, legions, mages, white dragons, copper dragons. They appear from time to time in Blue. It would be helpful (and atmospheric) if a message appeared explaing why. Similarly a message of lament for a dead hero would be good.

About the arrival of additional units: except for Adventurers, they don't appear from time to time, but when you discover certain techs! See post below...

And about the messages: yes, it would be useful + atmospheric (and you know from Discworld that I like it), but I've already reached the limits of the events file size!

I'll nonetheless try to make some room in it and include a few messages!

I've probably missed something, but the pioneers and the refugees seem to be the same.

Refugees are settlers, Pioneers are engineers (with not too bad a defense)

Also, although the graphics for the faces in the city screen are good, it is very difficult to distinguish whether they are red, dark blue or light blue. On one turn when Blue was celebrating, I couldn't see very much difference.

Yes, I agree on that, the difference isn't big between them!

Curt, any suggestion??

On a similar topic, I suggest that to help people like me, you have a default tax setting of 60 - 40 tax and research (no luxury).

OK

And another thing - is there a way to change government? I never found it!

See post below!

PS. I agree with DarkCloud's comments about the Paynim Raiders. I did collect one, and it was quite a useful unit, but too far away to bother with. It seemed to respawn on death, but maybe that was coincidence.

coincidence it was, you probably discovered the related tech on that turn!

Thanks a lot for those comments!

[Cyrion]

Some explanations 1

Some explanations on the background and on how to play are long overdue, so here they are!

1. The civs

There are 7 civs, each with a specific role!

The Free Men
They are the scenario's protagonists, the only playable civ. They represent the humans and allies led by Fingolfin and trying to reconquer the Pomarj.

They have no city at start but are poised to take Blue soon!

The Humanoids
They are your enmies; they represent the loose alliance of creatures currently occupying Pomarj. You are always at war with them.
You can only win be destroying them!

The Kobolds
The Kobolds are small Humanoids occupying a few cities in Pomarj. At start, they are at peace with both you and the Humanoids. Yours is the choice between attacking them, or keeping peace with them.
There are 2 ways of interacting with them (apart from attacking them):
- if you research Kobold Weapons, they'll be able to build Kobold Bowmen (representing Weapons delivery + training from the humans to the Kobolds)
- if you research Kobold Alliance they'll attack the Humanoids, effectively helping you!

The Suloise
They represent an old Suloise tribe who has been petrified for centuries and will be freed at the same time as the Last Stand army.
Their city is already on the map but enclosed by impassable units, and so they won't interact until the Twisted Forest is destroyed.
After that, they'll probably attack you after a while. Their units are really powerful...

The Wild Coast
They have the city of Elredd on the north of the map and have no mobile units (but invincible defence ones); the only interaction possible with them is trading with Elredd (REALLY lucrative)

The Barrier and Evil Allies
Those 2 civs are there only for "mechanical" purposes. You can't interact with them, except destroying the Evil Allies units (Stone Dam and Twisted Forest).


2. Government

At the beginning of the game, your government is Despotism; once you've taken Blue, you can research Pomarj Baronny and switch to Baronny (i.e. Monarchy); no other government changes are possible.



3. Settler units

There are 2 settler types:
- the Refugees (settlers): families coming to settle in Pomarj
- the Pioneers (engineers): military engineers with a correct defence

Both can be used to build cities, but they are a rare (unbuildable) commodity, and the Pioneers might be rather saved for "engineering" purposes...

[Cyrion]

Some explanations 2

4. Trade

Many riches can be found on Pomarj. Once you can build Merchants, they can effectively be traded which will boost your economy and research!

The Free City of Elredd on the Wild Coast is a perfect destination for trade (many Wonders making it quite lucrative).

5. Research

The various techs are divided in 5 categories explained here:

Military
Symbol = Sword
Those techs create military units via events, allow the building of military units or are on the path to a tech doing that!

Applied
Symbol = Wheel
Those techs create refugee units via events, allow the building of improvements or are on the path to a tech doing that!

Start
Symbol = Book
Those techs are the not researchable techs used for the game mechanics. They are given from the start to the correct civs.

Twisted Forest
Symbol = "Twis. Forest" text (will be modified)
Those techs are the one on the path leading to the "un-petrification" of the Twisted forest!
This branch will culminate once the Horn of Iuz (created by the last tech from this branch) will destroy the Twisted Forest, creating a huge army for you (about 15-17 units!)
More explanations about this Forest history will be written in the techs descriptions


Arepo
Symbol = "Arepo" text (will be modified)
Those techs form a branch ending with the arrival of many units (military and refugees) north of Elredd (about 9 units)
More explanations about Arepo history will be written in the techs descriptions

6. Units

Only a few units are buildable (once the related techs have been researched), but most of your reinforcement will be gained via events: once you research some techs, units will be created in Blue or elsewhere.

The tech description aren't written yet, but if they trigger a unit creation, it's already written what and where, so check the description before choosing the tech to research!

7. "Lying around units"

When exploring Pomarj, you might notice some units (or even the Suel City) enclosed by impassable units: it's because the event file is full and I couldn't put in it more Create units commands...

So, should you come across them, ignore those units until they are freed (and then fight for your survival...)


Well, I hope those few points will help you, and if anything more is needed just ask!

[N35t0r]

To solve Blue starving, perhaps you want to give shipwrecks a bonus food of one.



Also, I heard somewhere that, if an enemy captured one of your cities and built improvements, then if you took it back then they didn't get destroyed, so maybe you want to try it to see if you can get Blue to keep it's fortifications and harbour.

[Arthedain]

Well thanks for posting the info Cyrion. They will help m out when I try the scenario again.

[DarkCloud]

Found an easy way to solve that: I'll replace the fortress on the eastern island by a soon-to-be-renamed airbase; thus, the White Dragon can stay longer, and the island could then even be used as a base for patrolling in search of pirates!

What dou you think, would that do it??

I think that's a pretty good idea.