Atomic Eagle II: The Price of Freedom Development

[Sarsstock]

Ahhh so I did. Thats a relief actually, I thought I was going crazy for a second as an entire group of posts seemed to have been whiped out.... my bad .

In any case I see you say its close, any further changes I make will be posted on the Modern Unit thread as to not clog up your AE2 thread here.

[Jimmywax]

Originally posted by Sarsstock

Anyways Gareth I had mistaken Jimmy's unit for one you had created, my apologies once again. I have been using Jimmy's Sabre as a reference, hopefully I'm getting closer to what Harry's looking for.

Wow, ok all I can say is wow. That someone would actually mistake something of mine for Gareth's and then have Fairline himself recomend it. Wow

P.S. The fact that I am in a tiny ass motel room in Chester Montana (with several beers in me) kind of has the effect of making me into an emotional little cream-puff.

[Jimmywax]

@ Harry

That Ta-183 really was a hack job. I did it in about 20 minutes based off some 3d gfx by Mario Merino. I think the color needs some tweakin and so does the tail. But I hoped somebody could take it as a starting point and run.

[typhoon]

Wow, ok all I can say is wow. That someone would actually mistake something of mine for Gareth's and then have Fairline himself recomend it. Wow

You deserve every bit of it, beer or no beer

Nice going on the Sabre Chris, eagerly awaiting the finished product.

@ Harry

If you're still needing a P-80, I have this little knock-together from the works of Jimmy, Gareth and Curt. You know the drift, any mistakes or ugliness contained therein is solely the responsibility of one Typhoon.

[curtsibling]

Killer units all over today, great stuff!

[Jimmywax]

Thanks Typhoon Nice update of the p-80 by the way too.

@Harry are you considering a place for the He-162 volksjager. Maybe something that could be made available if the war starts going badly for the Germans.

[jim panse]

@ Typhoon: Wonderful units

@ Jimmy: Now that´s not too bad an idea ...

Since the scenario starts in 1948 that would be a good idea - even if an other plane would do that trick possibly.

Harry,

one more point: Let's talk logistics.

I think we cann all agree that German logistics in WW2 were not *that* good. Hindsight speaking, I know, but: Even during the early campaigns (Norway, France for instance, not to speak of Barbarossa) logistics, supply etc. were not too good.

(I read that the Wehrmacht had diesel fuel available on 22 June would have lasted for 3 months, the Luftwaffe had bombs stored for one month of war by 22 June 1941, btw.)

And now you are suggesting the same Wehrmacht - though victorious in Europe - would be mountin a major offensive against the US of A, thousands of kilometers off their bases and homelands, over the Atlantic - and this with the more than just limited resources of the Kriegsmarine? Not to mention the unbelievingly huge naval power of the US Navy/Air Force.

I for one doubt that, sorry.

I could, however, imagine the Germans using their special weapon - rockets, jet fighters and bombers, huge, improved submarines - extensively to bypass these dangers from the Navy & Air Force.

I need to get going now, I shall keep you posted on that aspect - if you want me to.

[jim panse]

For more information on the logistics aspects of Sea Lion (for instance) follow that link.

Furthermore, I doubt the Kriegsmarine would be able to check the US Navy. The odds are just too small. Look at the only German Aircraft Carrier Graf Zeppelin - no match for the the American navy either.

I know of the aspects of the Germans using their aircraft & submarines to fight the US Navy ... please do not take this as more than it is: questions to solve this problem.

Sorry again for being such an arse

[our_man]

And now you are suggesting the same Wehrmacht - though victorious in Europe - would be mountin a major offensive against the US of A, thousands of kilometers off their bases and homelands, over the Atlantic - and this with the more than just limited resources of the Kriegsmarine? Not to mention the unbelievingly huge naval power of the US Navy/Air Force.

Meh. My advice - don't get too caught up in the reality of the situation if it's going to interfere. Remember, in AEI you were attacked by the undead themselves, so I'm not going to have to suspend too much belief to imagine the Nazis assaulting the USA! I think he mentioned that there are a lot of pro-Axis states in Central and South America, which might help a bit.

Anyway, how much do you bet that Harry already has a conceivable backstory ready to explain it?

[jim panse]

I bet that too - until I get to read it I will continue to harass him

[Cyrion]

And now you are suggesting the same Wehrmacht - though victorious in Europe - would be mountin a major offensive against the US of A, thousands of kilometers off their bases and homelands, over the Atlantic - and this with the more than just limited resources of the Kriegsmarine? Not to mention the unbelievingly huge naval power of the US Navy/Air Force.

Remember, in AEI you were attacked by the undead themselves, so I'm not going to have to suspend too much belief to imagine the Nazis assaulting the USA!

And here comes Cyrion to the rescue with a really plausible explanation: of course the nazi Panzerdivisionen are carried and supported by an entire fleet of flying dutchmen!

[Harry Tuttle]

I knew this was coming.

Ok, I'm going to add a few plausabilities to the argument.

1. Staging Point For Invasion: In the first AE we see the Germans stage a number of coups in the northern countries of South America. With friendly governments in control of these countries it is plausible that men and materiele could have been, especially in the relative peace between the American/Japanese War and the European War, moved to these countries. Staging points, depots, and airfields could have been prepared and constructed to provide a jump off point for the initial stages of the invasion of Mexico and thus North America.

2. Experience: Rommel is in control of Germany at this point and has consolidated the bulk of Europe. Mannstein is back after Rommel got him out of exile. The Hand of the Reaper (your old persona, the protoge' to Rommel) is still around and will show up. Also we have to remember that the German forces our now veterans, very experienced veterans. They aren't the same green troops that went through France or Norway.

3. Power Concentration: The BF109T and Me262 are fully employed by the German Navy. The Atlantic is Germany's back yard. Germany's full Navy is located in the Northern Atlantic. American forces are broken up in fleets from Somoa to Australia to Hawaii and are already supporting the Nationalist Chinese in mainland China plus have to contend with occupying Japan. The straits of Panama are mined and have U-boats patrolling the coast from friendly South American ports. The US Navy would have the advantage of sheer numbers and more experience, but it would all come down to how much naval power they could pack into the Atlantic at once. A series of engagements with a prepared Kriegsmarine and the US Navy could have some serious problems on their hands.

4. Ambition: As the story goes, the American public just lost a few hundred thousand soldiers fighting the Japanese. They don't want another war and neither does the White House or the Pentagon. They have Communists to fight and they're happy with that. The German High Command want blood and have planned out how they're going to take out the Yanks once and for all.

5. Technology: The Germans are a generation ahead of the Americans in regards to airpower. The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarines have the V3 and television guided missles. Their jet powered planes are at least 80 mph faster than what the Americans can foot.

Ok, that's what I got. Also remember that the industrialists were given control of war production. No more holidays off.

[Sarsstock]

My question Harry is about the U-Boats in service with the Kreigsmarine. Will the Type XXI (Elektro Boot) be in full service by the time of AE2? In real life only one of the 118 built by 1945 had embarked on a combat patrol, however in the Atomic Eagle timeline I'm sure it easily could have demonstrated its full potential and taken over the role of workforce of the U-Boat fleet by 1948.

[Harry Tuttle]

Very true Chris and AE2 will most likely feature them. But of course this'll be primarily a land war so there won't be a huge naval presence in the scenario.

[jim panse]

Harry,

I hope you forgive me (for now and what´s coming dopwn there ... )

@ (1): While it is true about your first part of Atomic Eagle, since the relation of the US war effort was 15 to 85 between the Pacific & Europe I consider it rather *unlikely* that the US - though behind in technology - would suuccumb to the Kriegsmarine.

The Bismarck and the Tirpitz aside, it would take years, more likely decades, before the Germans would be able to face the US Navy on the seas.

Another matter is submarine warfare. Also, carrier-based aircraft would be too little, too few to make the difference in this case.

Also, US policy would not have let the Germans (or the Rooskies in the OTL) to gain any significant foothold in the Americas. With Germany winning WW2 in Europe it is even more unlikely the US of A would have alllowed to take these coups d'état to take place ...

@ (3) By 1948 the Me-109 (which was obsolete by 1942 earliest & would have been to replaced by other models as the Fw-190 or the Me-262) would not have been deployed I think. The Me-262 was to be replaced by the Ta 183 any time and this would lead to the conclusion the Germans would be in about the same position as the Yankees were in 1950 in Korea (Sabre vs. Fagot).

@ (4) Ambition: Yes, but I take that once it cometh to their homeland Yankees would lose their "sense of homour" ...

Sorry again .... don´t let your killer scenario bothered by me anymore