Ozzy's Classical Eurodip!

[Zylka]

Ok - I did your hill fort test on DEITY; and the results were near exactly as I described. The modern inf average out with less than 35 added hp though - with about 1.5 howiters winning the battle. The difference here would near perfectly conclude that the pike flag does NOT work for modern inf against later units

So I'm therefore assuming that in SP - Deity level gives a 1.0 proportion of attack realism on real calculated outcomes. Emperor would give an example 0.9 (in human favour), King a 0.8, etc.

I do not know if this is indeed the case in MP, but you would think the programmers were smart enough to set it at a blank 1.0 for ALL difficulty levels when multiplaying. Otherwise we may have a factor where attack initiated probabilities are heightened for every player; or perhaps even where defense is heightened too and everything works out. Hopefully we can bank on a 1.0 for Emperor as well as Deity levels..

So then.. time to do the math for an apparent static 6 defense to see if it equals out. If so - increasing modern infantry defense to 9 would be a plausible outcome

[Frank Johnson]

Im starting to think the pike flag is a dud also. I just did some larger scale tests under the HOTW4 rules, and there doesn't appear to be any difference between the mech infantry, and the modern infantry......even though they have the same defense, before the bonus.


But heres the thing.....the pike flag only changes the scenario from a 12:9 scenario to a 12:12 scenario.

In the 12:9 scenario.....which is 4:3, leads to 11 damage on the howies. The 12:12 scenario should lead to 15 damage.....but its hard to tell.

[Frank Johnson]

Increasing the base (non-bonus) defense of a defensive unit has more effect than you might first think.

Since, if it was 6 before, it forified to 9.

If its 9 now, it fortifies to 13.5

So.....I don't think we should increase the defense all the way to 9......

[Zylka]

Second trial - with pike flag assumed broken

On assumed 1.0 Deity factor

Modern Inf: 6 real defense vs Mobile 155's static 12 attack
%50 fortify bonus (by BASE defense of 6) is added = 6+3
%100 terrain bonus (by BASE defense of 6) is added = 9+6
%100 fortress bonus (") is added = 15+6

21 defense vs 12 attack

Modern inf has %64 chance of each hit - 3 hits needed for kill
Mobile 155mm has %36 chance of each hit - 2 hits needed for kill

*Over time - average leftover for modern inf should be 5.5; for howitzer 3.x (no clue)
5.5/30hp x10 = 55 hp total (out of ten defending units)
3.x/30hp x10 = 3* hp total (")

Session 1

48hp all remaining Infantry
35hp all remaining Howitzers

5 infantry killed
5 howitzers killed


Session 2

58hp all Inf
15hp all How

3 infantry killed
7 howitzers killed


Session 3

38hp all Inf
28hp all How

5 infantry killed
5 howitzers killed



Session 4

40hp all Inf
27hp all How

3 infantry killed
7 howitzers killed



Slightly more flattering for the Infantry, yet with crude calculations.. all in all I'm now convinced the pike flag doesn't work - as cyrion says

What do we do, raise modern inf to a defense of 8?

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
Increasing the base (non-bonus) defense of a defensive unit has more effect than you might first think.

Since, if it was 6 before, it forified to 9.

If its 9 now, it fortifies to 13.5

So.....I don't think we should increase the defense all the way to 9......

ugh.. so how are we sure where the unit bonuses level out to; if they're calculated in halfs, are rounded up to the whole - etc

If they round - I'd say a defense of 7, of course altering the mech infantry back somewhere

[Rasputin]

why not just remove the howies from the game it only one unit and seems to be the only unstoppalble one, that way no other units need modding .

[Zylka]

k - on test, going with 7. Most of them lose fortified on rivers, but every single remaining howizter is immobile dog meat for the following counter turn. The inf do REALLY well fortified on simple hills.

Armor
10/5
3 HP 1FP
3 moves
80 shields

Mobile 155mm (new Howitzer)
12/2
3 HP 2FP
2 moves
80 shields
Ignores city walls

Modern infantry
6/7
3 HP 1 FP
1 move
60 shields

Mech infantry
7/6
3 HP 1 FP
3 moves
60 shields

MLRS 14/2 (comes with Robotics, as well)
3 HP 2FP
1 move
120 shields
Ignores city walls

Not like any of that is in effect or matters for tommorrow's game. At all. Ah well, that was fun.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Rasputin
why not just remove the howies from the game it only one unit and seems to be the only unstoppalble one, that way no other units need modding .

because artillery is a hugely significant part of modern warfare

[Cyrion]

OK, I did a quick check (even if my answer didn't seem to interest you ):

the pike advantage is a 50% bonus against units with one hitpoint and a movement of two.

So there's nos surprise it didn't work against the Howitzer!

[OzzyKP]

Hey Cyron, you want to play the Greeks?

[Ljube]

Reduce attack of howitzers to 10.

[deity]

And movement of one. this discussed in Rah Rules by War4 way back along with limiting spies because od spy blitzes that destroy all your improvements. But not added to Rah Rules I don't think.

[Zylka]

Ozzy - you find your own sub, at LEAST give concrete notice, or you stay with the group. Is that not common sense in decency? Deciding to leave the arriving group 15 minutes prior to session is just ridiculous, at best

[Zylka]

Absolutely WOW.

Unbelievable.. Dylan gave heads up for tonight, I guess ljube is somewhat excusable as he'd wake up with a phone call - I mean even when I missed a session it was because I was suddenly THROWN IN JAIL for the night

Yet Ozzy - MR. DIPLOMACY decides to drop out of the session while in the middle of participating in the story thread, simply telling us to "find a sub"? Gee bud, I'm so sorry things aren't going your own special way in the game, but you DON'T f* the scheduled group so damned casually like that. It's especially pathetic when you claim to stand for all these "diplomatic" ideals of working things out; you know - player integrity

I'm incredibly dissapointed to see this kind of behavior from YOU of all. In any case - see you all (hopefully) next week. If adversity proves too much; fair enough. Just please find a quality and consistent sub prior to our scheduled play time

[OzzyKP]

I said last week I was leaving the game.