Teach me!

[Blake]

War is the way. War is the only way.

The Gods of war smile down upon the Celts.

[Wittlich]

It looks like Blake has thrown the gauntlet down against...Whom???

...Unless I misunderstood Blake's last post (which I really doubt)...

[Wittlich]

After rereading the thread, I'm guessing it is Gyathaar - but I might be mistaken (although that is a long-shot)

[Blake]

Well you could just check the Diplomacy screen / Log and see who I'm at war with. But for the lazy:

I declared war on Gyathaar.
Alexman declared war on me.
Vondrack declared war on me.


My last post can be interpreted in many possible ways, although it's intended to be ominous .

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Blake
Well you could just check the Diplomacy screen / Log and see who I'm at war with. But for the lazy:

I declared war on Gyathaar.
Alexman declared war on me.
Vondrack declared war on me.

And, ehm, for Witt...

Wittlich declared war on me.



If anyone feels singled out, don't worry, guys - I'm sure Blake will get to you eventually, too. Although... I'm not sure how fast he'll be able to make it now, facing such determined opposition... for example this turn, Blake has lost a caravel!

[Beta]

Emperor ToxoXI of Russia gets out his lawn chair, a couple beers and a bag of pretzels and sits down to watch the fun. He does feel somewhat uneasy given world events, but for the sake of his people, he appears quite relaxed.

[condor223]

Everything seems to be changing hour to hour. I can barely keep up with things!

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by vondrack

And, ehm, for Witt...

Wittlich declared war on me.

I know that has to worry you...

[Blake]

Civs which can't be located on the map don't count .

[condor223]

In diplo I heard the word treachery! AHaa! treachery is to be attacked by the units you gifted a friend just four turns ago!

[Blake]

Those units are very sad that more of their brethren did not get the oppurtunity to join the honorable side. The Japanese (under old management) received enormous aid from the Celts, of particular note being significant territory. The revelation that the Japanese were parlaying with the enemy brought both great sadness and great resolve.

It's a curious thing that the Japanese chose to side themselves with the ones who would use them as an ablative meat shield. The Celts certainly never asked the Japanese to do any such thing.

I never said the word treachery, so I wonder why you're hearing it, mmmmmmm?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Blake
Those units are very sad that more of their brethren did not get the oppurtunity to join the honorable side. The Japanese (under old management) received enormous aid from the Celts, of particular note being significant territory. The revelation that the Japanese were parlaying with the enemy brought both great sadness and great resolve.

Fortunately, many Japanese units did join the honorable side.

The Japanese (under the new management) have received enormous aid from their current allies, of particular note being significant technology aid, cash, and... their lives, too.

I had done what you did, just a wee bit faster - and the Japanese (still under old management) were wise enough to listen to my, ehm, convincing words...

It's a curious thing that the Japanese chose to side themselves with the ones who would use them as an ablative meat shield. The Celts certainly never asked the Japanese to do any such thing.

Do we hear a little bit of envy here?

And for the record... the Egyptians have never asked the Japanese to do any such thing either...

I never said the word treachery, so I wonder why you're hearing it, mmmmmmm?

The wonderful thing with this war is all parties participating are honorable and far from having commited any treachery. What a pleasure to fight in such a war!

Take for example the Egyptians... some years ago, they told their friends, the Celts, that any move against the neighbouring Zulus or Mongolians would result in the Egyptians openly siding with the attacked parties - and see!?

They are!

Or the Celts! Some time ago, they indicated to their friends, the Egyptians, that any and all military-related technology provided by Egypt would be shortly used in a war against another world power. And see!?

It is being used!

As I said, it's a real pleasure to be involved in such a war.

Good luck!

[condor223]

I'm trying to find a sub for my civ, as this lung infection is back and holding firmly again. (4 weeks, I've not even tested something new which is very unusual for me) I have been on the verge of hospitalization for two weeks, and have to agree to it shortly. I'd hoped to win the private battle, but apparently I need help.

I've asked Toni Karayanev (Toni from the poly diplo games to sub for me), but I've not found him online today. This stupid infection has me not responding to turns. I'd either like a temporary truce or someone to sub for me.

I had looked fwd to playing this one out, find myself little prepared for a war, wanted none of it but was pressed, without a choice, to become able to at least defend myself from either faction in the war. Not having techs to defend myself allerted me to how desperate my situation as Japan was. My southern neighbor was much advanced in tech and shared naught. The Northern Neighbor gave without obligations, while I'd said I did not want to participate in a war. Alas it is so and I have hopes to find a sub... I'm missing turns from the infection and trying to hold my own.

I will email toni my plans and hope everything falls into place both on the home front and the game front.

Nolan

[Blake]

Originally posted by vondrack
The wonderful thing with this war is all parties participating are honorable and far from having commited any treachery. What a pleasure to fight in such a war!

Take for example the Egyptians... some years ago, they told their friends, the Celts, that any move against the neighbouring Zulus or Mongolians would result in the Egyptians openly siding with the attacked parties - and see!?

The strategically brilliant move, was telling me you were going to invade Japan. That led me to reluctantly break off communications with Japan ("non-interference"), leaving the negotiations and such wide open for you.
Very clever, if it was intentional, and even if it wasn't (which I'd guess), still very effective. Because otherwise I wouldn't have hesitated to tech Japan up and bring them into the war.

[Blake]

Originally posted by condor223
Not having techs to defend myself allerted me to how desperate my situation as Japan was. My southern neighbor was much advanced in tech and shared naught. The Northern Neighbor gave without obligations, while I'd said I did not want to participate in a war. Alas it is so and I have hopes to find a sub... I'm missing turns from the infection and trying to hold my own.

Nolan, this post is not really directed at you. You don't have to respond to it or defend your choices, in fact please don't! Just get better .
I'm giving some background and stuff for anyone who wants to read it.

The only reason I had to declare war was because Japan had been teched up and if it looks like a war bribe, walks like a war bribe, and quacks like a war bribe... well I'm going to assume it's a war bribe and not wait for the formalities. "Neutrality" is unfortunately not an option when territory is needed for passage, because closure of borders can at any time send those armies for a nice long teleport, there's only two ways to get guaranteed passage : Vassalage and War.

Of course the complicated thing here is Solver, I have no idea what Solver said about the state/history of relationships (and it's not my place to tell other players what their relationship with me is). But Solver gained at least half a dozen cities under my sponsorship/prodding and a lot of tech (of course I avoided gifting tech I wasn't allowed to trade), Solver also offered to Vassalize Japan off under the AI, to the Celts, I told him to get a substitute player. I think it was clear who Solver would have sided with, but if he didn't give explicit instructions to "be loyal to the Celts" then ah so, that's how it is.

If Solver had remained playing I would have merrily brought him into my wars without a second thought and also would have sided with Solver against Vondrack, if it came to that (in fact I'd specifically stated I'd come to the defense of Japan in any war, with the subtext being "Vondrack" since no-one else could get to Japan). But a new player complicates things because of the player-history-wipe (relationships are between players not civs), and although Vondrack stated he was more reluctant to attack Nolan than Solver, with the history-wipe I naturally remained sided with Vondrack rather than the newcomer. I don't think Vondrack could have bribed Solver against me, and if Vondrack said he was going to attack Solver, I'd have prepared to come to Solver's aid, instead of assuming a stance of non-interference (So Vondrack couldn't have performed the same indirection, see how complicated it is )

But it's not so much a case of betrayal as just misplaced loyalty. I more than half expected Vondrack would attack me, but I didn't expect he'd bribe Japan against me (or use them as a shield, same diff), because that's so completely tactless given the Japan-Celt history.

Whether it was obvious that those actions would lead to war. It was obvious to me, and should've been obvious to Vondrack too. I was not going to attack Japan under any circumstances and furthermore, Japan was protected completely by my borders, so Japan only needed to be teched up under two circumstances:
1) To use them against the Egyptians.
2) To use them against The Celts.

I was forced to assume that case 2 was true (especially given the circumstances), and I did offer vassalage in case it wasn't. Once I confirmed it was the case, I immediately formally declared the state of war (in accordance with the principle that actions speak louder than words).

It's entirely possible this wasn't obvious to Nolan, it may not have been obvious to Vondrack - but given that I wouldn't have attacked Japan, the only reason for Vondrack to give Japan tech, is if it's part of a "Hey, attack the Celts" deal. If Japan had remained un-teched up, I would have treated them as neutral bystanders and marched through to destroy Vondrack, but all evidence pointed to Japan's neutrality being utterly compromised, making them a ticking timebomb on my borders.