Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Hercules]

I prefer second path. Drafting riflemen makes more sense and with barracks built. But can we build some janissaries just to show others we have strong military capability. Are those the type of soldiers you have in mind, prior to riflemen?

[mzprox]

We have agreed not to make nap with Egypt so we need to build the janissary army either way. And we will. with the second path we will be less ready for invasion by t170, but i have doubts about that invasion anyway. Depends on many things. The difference is that on the first path weneed to get as many janissary as possible in 8 turns and we will probably won1t be under nationalism when we get rifling while on the second path we don1t need to overdraft our cites, we can do emergency draftings at any time and we can draft rifles as soon as we get the technology.

[mzprox]

new turn, we entered into golden age!
Revolted to Free Market, Caste system, Pacifism.

Goal set to get nationalism by the end of golden age. We should steal it, but I will make it so that if we fail we will still be able to research it.
We are also going for rifling as fast as possible. Next tech is printing press (2 turns) then we will get iron working, calendar, construction and get big overflow from these techs. Then we try to steal: if it succeed then we will go replaceable part->rifling, otherwise nationalism and then go for rifling.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow so the whole reason to choose Ottoman turned out to be a waste.

[Hercules]

Good going.

I suppose I don't quite understand the next steps: mechanics. iron, calendar and construction and re gunpowder? (did we get it last turn?) or are we waiting until we get these other techs. Are you saying our tech per turn build up will get us these techs, one at a time or a group at a time.

Also I remember that having the holy city of a religion and an another civ having that religion gave you insight into any city with that religion. is that still the case, I thought it was nerfed. But maybe that's not how our spies and missionaries will work.

[Ben Kenobi]

I suppose I don't quite understand the next steps: mechanics. iron, calendar and construction and gunpowder? (did we get it last turn?) Are you saying our tech per turn build up will get us these techs, one at a time or a group at a time.

He's saying we'll research more than those backwards techs cost so we will finally catch up with modern military. But, because we didn't get any of the prereqs for so, so late, Janisseries were a complete waste. He's basically skipping Janisseries altogether to shoot for the next tier up.

The question I think everyone here is asking WHEN are we going to build a military?!

MzProx is being cute here and not building Gunpowder at all. He's going: Paper/Printing Press/Replacement Parts/Rifling.

He can do this because he has Education and once he gets nationalism, Replacement Parts/Rifling comes open.

[Hercules]

No other civs are wary of our civ capability and rightly so.

[Ben Kenobi]

No other civs are wary of our civ capability and rightly so.

No other civs are wary of ours right now because we don't have any actual military to speak of. This way Mzprox puts off having to actually build a military for awhile longer.

[mzprox]

No, no..

Once we switch to nationalism in 7 turns we start drafting janissaries immediately. we will draft about 15 of them, then when the unhappyness of these drafting goes away riflemen will be available. The change from previous plan is that the plan was to draft two janissaries from most of the cities instead of one because our time in nationalism would had been limited. But now we will stay in nationalism after the golden ge so we don't need to overdo drafting. also ur defense capbilites will be much better if we are under nationalism.
Gundpowder is 80% researched btw. did not finish it because printing press is a good economic tech (villages and towns give extra commerce) and we will have gunpowder before we get nationalism.

[Hercules]

And if we build Janissaries, their extra capabilities carry on to riflemen I think.

[mzprox]

Also I remember that having the holy city of a religion and an another civ having that religion gave you insight into any city with that religion. is that still the case, I thought it was nerfed. But maybe that's not how our spies and missionaries will work.

They have changed a bit. Rihgt now we get a 40% discount if we have the holy city and we steal from a city which has our religion. that's why it is important to convert that city.

In other news.
we kinda finalized our trade with inca: we got back 60 gold and for the rest-140gold-we got a worker and a settler. Also they seems to have agreed that we take the border city from them once they slaved everything out of it. I hope it will work.. getting a bit worried though that Egypt might break the nap with us, but hopefully it won1t get to that point.. so first we gift money to inca, then pillage a strategically important road, then 'steal1 a city from them which they would had taken and then steal technologies with our great spy.. they will not be happy for sure

[mzprox]

And if we build Janissaries, their extra capabilities carry on to riflemen I think.

unfortunately they won't. If they were normal promotions then they would but those are just unnamed bonuses.

[Hercules]

unfortunately they won't. If they were normal promotions then they would but those are just unnamed bonuses.

A shame, but anyhow Riflemen are strong at the start.

[mzprox]

For reference:

t153-154 Printing press
t155 gunpowder
t156 construction
t157 calendar
t158 iron working

t159 we must try to steal nationalism by this turn, because the next is our last chance to revolt to nationalism and if the stealings fail we must research it ourselves. I will make it so that with all the overflows we will be able to get nationalism in one turn of research. But for the rest of the plan i will assume that stealing will be succesfull. so t159-replaceable parts

t160->replaceable parts/rifling, we switch to nationalism and start drafting some janissaries

t161 golden age ended still we should be able to get rifling in about 5 turns

t167-168 rifling is ready we can start drafting rifles, we have 2-3 turns left from our nap with RB.

These are my latest estimations. Shows that we could get rifling sooner than expected if everything works well.

[Ben Kenobi]

t153-154 Printing press
t155 gunpowder
t156 construction
t157 calendar
t158 iron working

Ok, that's a sensible build order. Apologies. I didn't see gunpowder listed. Let's hope we don't get invaded in the meantime, as we are very vulnerable atm.