Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Calanthian]

Please Dinner, try to tone down on the snide comments..

c'est le ton qui fait la musique
it is the tone that makes the music; it's not what you say but how you say it
(i.e.: how things are said makes their meaning credible)

[mzprox]

We need many things ASAP, a spaceship for example.

back to this barbarian stuff: if it wasn't a second one I'd suggest to move the warrior from Aurora to the cap, but in this case for the best defense my suggestion is this:
build a 7th warrior in the capital in two turns. The two warriors there should be enough, so no need to send the western defenders to the east, and Diomedes can resume scouting the SW soon.
apollo and that other warrior can switch roles once the horse city is founded.

[Dinner]

T66 I've had like 6 warriors in my territory before on normal speed. If 4 more pop up next turn all over, what do we do? We need chariots/axes ASAP.

Not to rub it in but I believe one of us has been bringing up that need for some time now. This is my one and only "I told you so" post.

[Calanthian]

We are in agreement.

[mzprox]

don't worry, things are under control. we are expanding too fast and so do our rivals thank to our above average starting area. Barbs can enter territory if numberofcities/player>3. Normally the program sends a warning about hostile troop when the barb is allowed to enter, but it didn't do this time.

btw one efficient way to defend if we "fogbust" and not allowing barbs to spawn at all. our west is well covered, in the south and north we hve mostly seas, we need to reinforce east.
our options now:
1, send a warrior from Aurora (arrives in 3 so need to delay growing one turn, leaves our worker in the west in a very small risk)
2, build a warior in Capital in two turns (requires to work on forrest instead of cottage) delays the finishing of library (thus mathematics) by two turns
3, move the warrior from Aurora one turn later and defend with one warrior (barb could pillage deer)

finishing library asap in capital is very important in my development plan, but i will make more tests to see if there is a good alternative

[DNK]

T66 I've had like 6 warriors in my territory before on normal speed. If 4 more pop up next turn all over, what do we do? We need chariots/axes ASAP.

[Robert]

I doubt that barbs will enter our borders that early in the game.
I often chop the great wall in my sp games before I built any defense units. Never any barb invades my cities before the GW has been finished. And that's on immortal level.

So I'd say: ignore the barb, he won't harm us.

Ok, ignore me, apparently
It's already 1800BC, I see, so it's not that early in the game. I'm myself more familiar with going for BW much earlier in the game. I think that screwed my mind up.

[mzprox]

This sucks.. ,there is even an other warrior there.. so let's consider our options:

(first about worker turns: sorry I did not tell every details, but I said I'd do some chopping to finish library sooner and I wouldn't had time to finish any mines till then. That road will be needed there and from that point we could even reach many possible sites of bronze if they got revealed next turn)
The third worker will travel west to improve pig/horse and do chopping)

now about defense:
Last turn i moved out the defender from the cap to intercept the barb in case it enters, and I agree with Cal's suggested move to the SE.
If we move there however we need to delay the cap's growth or it will be unhappy.
Later I will do some test games, right now a possible way to defend: move Aurora's defender into the cap (3 turns) move the warrior SW of Aurora into Aurora. Thiswould leaveone of our worker undefended for one turn, butnobarb in sight. There is an extremely low chance that a barb wolf is around.. so I think we could take the risk.

(editforCal'slast picture. He suggests the same warrior moves. The settler and worker should move to the cow tile sw of Aurora (not moving the settler out of border yet,she can stillreach city site next turn)

Btw the role of apollo there is not just defense but it also prevents new barbs spawning in an 5*5 area around him.

[Calanthian]

The barb warrior did enter our territory and a second one showed up too..
Now we need to take the best defensive position possible and hope he'll attack:



From this position we can still move back to deer (and even back to the city in time) if barb ignores us. And if we win without much damage Feruk can fortify and heal at the position, while waiting for the second barb warrior.


AND Mz may I ask that you discuss more considering each turn.

*) I for one think the worker building the road on the banana could have done better things (like building a mine near Port Boreas to finish the work boat)..

*) When the libraries are finished, we need more workers

*) Furthermore I think we need to use Apollo's double moves more.. right now he can go to Elissars position (blue), then he is closer to the south where he can explore some more. Especially with Diomedes (red) returning too..




Elissar (blue move) should move to Aurora, to free up Cerberus so he can go to Apolyton.

[Robert]

I doubt that barbs will enter our borders that early in the game.
I often chop the great wall in my sp games before I built any defense units. Never any barb invades my cities before the GW has been finished. And that's on immortal level.

So I'd say: ignore the barb, he won't harm us.

[mzprox]

i saw once how much informaton can be gathered from the powergraphs, i1m not that pro and don't have too much time for that, but some info is here:



once we get BW and one more city we will be well ahead in power

[Dinner]

I'd prefer not to lose the capital so we'll just have to delay one turn so we get the warrior. Besides that would also help even up the power graph a little though we both know the Inca are using BW to build axes right now.

[mzprox]

i tried to figure out how many cities the others can have, it's hard to say, but some info:
the smallest civ (Zulu) has a pop3 and pop2 (though they slaved last turn)
the biggest was 6-5-2, Egypt (realms beyond) they slaved to 6-3-2
that makes us the biggest civ for now 5-5-2
inca and holy rome has 4-4 cities, I did not follow the rest.

[Calanthian]

Byerley is a great name.

[mzprox]

That Barb warrior in the east is a problem: if we build another warrior there that delays the library, which delays the time we can resume research and the building of the academy. also it is 1 extra gold/turn maintenance.

(btw in different circumstance i'd say let the barb take the capital, we retake it and got a free palace transfer )

But I have a feeling that he barb won't enter our borders yet. I can't say it for 100%, but we would had gotten a warning if it was dangerous. Since we can finish an other warrior in two turns anyway I will wait at least one turn an see what happens. In the meantime I will probably snd one of the western warriors to the east. (but only after the horse city has been founded)