Lizzy's rise to greatness

[mzprox]

The civ who got hinduism now could get priesthood next and start chopping the oracle while researching writing so they could get the CoL. We would need to finish bronzeworking+ mysticism+a religion tech to start on priesthood.
I'm just saying it's risky and if we go on the "build academies" path we won't be much behind without taking risk.
Now, getting philo from the oracle is a bit more risky, but much more rewarding (1450 beakers worth tech instead of 650).

One thing for sure: We can not just pick a path without trying it first in the demogame.
From my experience I like the mathematics first path better, not because the hammams, but because of the increased yield of chopping. It will allow us to finish libraries sooner in the latest cities. (it will use up worker turns and forests obviously and we get farther away from monarchy)

Here is what I'm doing in current test games:
Aurora will work a bit less on cottages, but finishes library sooner and put 2 scientist specialists in it (library t58)
Capital: with one chopping (20 hammers) and working on forests a bit instead of cottages (will get library in t59)
we resume research mathematics for 5 turns then we halt again waiting for the first academy in Aurora
Western city: will get a fast start, pig will be available in the turn after foundation, then horses as soon as it hits pop 2 and by the time it grows to pop3 library will be ready thanks to two chopping and mathematics(!)
port boreas: will still grow and work on fishing boat. plan is to let it grow to pop 4 before switching to production, but right after the library is chopped in western city two forests will be chopped for it too, so library will be finished fast.

After the libraries Aurora will start a new settler, and the Cap a new worker
Western city will start on a chariot after library.

One thing is not taken into account: the availability of bronze, that may alter this plan.

So basically this approach will do some deforesting to give us a head start. we will get two academies (in Aurora and the Cap)

I realized that bulbing philo is not that easy (since we wouldnt get that option before researching alphabet), but we can research it or Theology if we need a religion. (btw I will probably recommend the building of the Apostolic Palace)

Inca has just finished their 4th cities, it took them long, since we saw the settler several turns ago. lets hope they did not expand into our direction) They might had waited to plant this city after they get Hinduism (if the got it).

Maybe we should keep up with the stories: maybe something about the 3 bears we killed, about our new cities, our contact with inca (not giving away usefull info just some flavor)

[Ben Kenobi]

we KNOW no one is on that tech path as no one has gotten the religion yet.

Right, just like a few turns ago we 'knew' no one was close to a religion. I see no need to deviate from our path at present.

[Dinner]

And if someone else gets Oracle, we get nothing. Not worth it. Mathematics + Masonry helps us continue to chug along and grow irrespective as to what the other players do.

Right now we KNOW no one is on that tech path as no one has gotten the religion yet. Oracle is easily one of the most powerful wonders in the game and we can have it if we want it.

Or we can be boring and uncreative and settle for an also ran status. Personally, I would rather strive for greatness and can't think of a better wonder to try for. We get the wonder, the religion, and the ability to get courthouses all wrapped into one while picking up math at the same time. That's the obvious win and anything else is just degrees of lost potential.

[Calanthian]

I am not sure yet which path to take, but Mathematics + Masonry was the original path...
(hammams)

[Ben Kenobi]

Also it will help our economy out a lot to bag a religion not to mention improve our happiness while using the oracle to do it means we jump ahead technologically.

And if someone else gets Oracle, we get nothing. Not worth it. Mathematics + Masonry helps us continue to chug along and grow irrespective as to what the other players do.

[Dinner]

That wasn't our original path and route B does get us mathematics. Also it will help our economy out a lot to bag a religion not to mention improve our happiness while using the oracle to do it means we jump ahead technologically.

[Ben Kenobi]

I disagree with Dinner.

We should keep to the original path with Mathematics + Masonry, now that it looks like the other nations have prioritized religion. Let's just continue what we were doing, and stay the course. We need to keep building up our cities and our economy and taking the techs with maximum flexibility. Mathematics is a good tech and leaves us open to a variety of possibilities without committing ourselves to a grand strategy with marginal gain. It's not clear to me what direction we should be heading in, now that Hinduism was founded.

We're starting to enter the middle game, and like chess, we should keep doing solid development moves. We still have lots of internal needs. (Esp, BW, etc).

[Dinner]

If that's what it takes to get route B chosen and push for Oracle and thus CoL then fine but I fear the longer we delay the more likely it is someone else will nab it and we'll just fall that much further behind. IMHO route be with an all out rush to get the oracle is THE way to go especially since in the end we'll get Math at almost the exact same time as CoL so there is no lose there. On the upside we'll be at least one whole big and very expensive tech ahead.

[mzprox]

Delayed rexing means rexing after we have a strong core economy (bigger cites, libraries etc). But we are not even delaying it. in afew turns we will hve 4 cities which is the same as others have.
I also wouldn't worry about religion too much. The safest way to get at least one is to make great scientist and boost our research. even theology is a good tech for us (Christianity).
as for going for mathematics or religious techs: both way is viable, mathematics helps us finishing libraries sooner in the smaller cities, but delays monarchy and col (note. col itself won't reduce maintenance, we need choping/slaving to build those courthouses fast)

[Dinner]

Next tech should be Mathematics: it is needed in virtually all approaches
(good for chopping, hammam, currency, wonders (chopping)

I disagree. We should be going straight on option B without more trivial detours. We need a religion and time is against us so screw around with this other stuff AFTER we have COL via the oracle. Not to mention CoL will allow us to actually start REXing instead of falling ever further behind in the size and pop race.

Before we even started we agreed on a "delayed REXing" strategy and right now all I am seeing is lots of delaying but no REXing.

[Dinner]

HINDUISM IS FOUNDED

This makes path B even more attractive especially since who ever just got poly will no doubt go straight to mono. C simply is no longer a viable option.

Looking at the turn, I'd like to suggest two (smaller) adjustments:

1) Make OPEN BORDERS with Inca.
It will let us get more of a clue of their intentions and will increase our trade income when we do 2)

2) After the cottages are finished build the mine hill of Port Boreas, to get the workboat finished sooner and to let Port Boreas do usefull things while at POP limit. Send the workboat towards Inca.
It will increase our trade income IF they accepted the open borders (while it won't increase theirs )

I like this.

[mzprox]

it's either the Inca or the indians (they got +6 score increase in this turn). If we see a GNP jump on Inca's graph next tun then probably they got it.

[Hercules]

I wonder who found Hinduism. Could it be our neighbours or CFC or Universciv. Or will it not show up in score until next turn?

[DNK]

For TGL:

1. We haven't prioritized it and it's getting late to start on such a popular wonder. I doubt we'll take it.

2. Where can we build it? We'd need to create a city specifically for this and fast. The only place that is decent for coastal production/chops is south of the capital, but even that is a bit food starved, and we'd need a chopped library/monument first just to pop borders enough to get food enough to work multiple mined hills. I don't think we can manage, especially on a tight time schedule as we'd have for such a priority wonder.

2b. I'm not sure about Boreas. 3 hills = 11HPT. We have just a single, 2-tile distance chop, which isn't much - a third of a lighthouse. So, we need 260H to finish the GLH and a LH - 20-30H for the chop = 230H/11 = 21T. That, plus we need Sailing first means we've got like what, 25 turns to finish it? Anyone who prioritized it would be well ahead of us. I guess the issue of fail gold would make or break it. I'll let you experts of micro figure that one out

3. The whole bullseye on your back thing.


For the scientist:

I always academize them early. It's roughly equal to settling early on, and by the midgame it's at least double as good.

Also, it will help the city improve its culture, which can make a huge difference if we get into a defensive war, if we get an extra cultural level out of it (since we're only doing libs for now, and iirc an academy is 2Cul/T, we're doubling the culture rate, which could very well mean an extra 20% defense in a key city down the line).

Keeping him on ice to see if he can be used for a Taosim bulb is a good idea - one of my big weaknesses is not bulbing ever


For Cal:

Check your WPC inbox

And, yeah, more workers! Never too many. 1.5/city is what I aim for also. I guess if we're going to be happy capped hard here it's not as important, especially with slavery whips coming up, but then just whip a worker and get the tiles improved instead imo.

[Calanthian]

Next tech should be Mathematics: it is needed in virtually all approaches
(good for chopping, hammam, currency, wonders (chopping)