Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Calanthian]

Next tech should be Mathematics: it is needed in virtually all approaches
(good for chopping, hammam, currency, wonders (chopping)

[Calanthian]

To build the GL (with a normal lighthouse first) and the colussus we would need a decent coastal city and Port Boreas is not one.

Port Boreas can be good enough in this stage of the game: it can have 3 mines (4 with border pop) that should be sufficient to build at least one of those two wonders. >> Colossos if we have copper.

we should consider moving the Cap to aurora

Yes I agree.

we go for col an use one of the GS to bulb philosophy

Interesting indeed.

As for open border: if the majority wants it then it's upto our diplomat to make that proposition. I vote Yes, but it won't have any effect for some time.

I vote YES too. So three more for a majority..
After we finish the workboat it needs to sail for ten turns.. then the effect will show (if we have fishing by that time).


* Furthermore I think we need more workers

[mzprox]

As for open border: if the majority wants it then it's upto our diplomat to make that proposition. I vote Yes, but it won't have any effect for some time.

[mzprox]

To build the GL (with a normal lighthouse first) and the colussus we would need a decent coastal city and port Boreas is not one.

I say we keep an eye on the oracle, but we should not rush for it. if we have mathematics and no one has taken it yet we may try to chop it fast.

One thing to discuss: what to do with our great scientists? I intend to get use of our philo trait as soon as possible and in my curent plan I start "producing" GSs in both aurora and the cap.

there are really two options now: 1 settle them 2 build academy
settling gives 7,5 science +1 production, academy gives 6-7 science and 4 culture though the science increases slowly as our commerce grows.

the best result is if we settle the first one and build an academy with the other in the same city. but then which city should it be? for long term it sould be the capital, but as I said before we should consider moving the Cap to aurora. this is a 160 hammer investment.. we could build 2 other cites for that cost.
we could also just build two academies, not that bad, but not the best.
there is also an interesting option: we go for col an use one of the GS to bulb philosophy, it's almost a guaranteed religion (unless someone is doing the same or getting it through the oracle.

[Calanthian]

When the above works we get another strategic course:


E) go for TRADE. The following techs should then be researched:
mathematics, sailing, metal casting, currency (probably in this order).
We can build the GREAT LIGHTHOUSE and COLOSSUS on the way.

After that we can get Code of Laws (with a chance for a religion).

I suspect we won't have a lot of competition on this course
(no sea civs, and our libraries will make sure we are in the top 3 with tech),
so we should be able to get both wonders..

The more I think about this option, the more I like it.



Trade and income will explode with both wonders..

and we can really start spamming (coastal) cities
as each city will give more trade return (4 trade routes and +1 on water tiles) as maintenance costs.

It also solves the luxury problem: instead of a few large cities, we simple build a lot, maybe a bit smaller cities.
The food overflow of our current cities can be used to build these settlers fast.


Some smaller remarks:
* This strategy works brilliantly: I played it to the max as Carthage in DoF..
* For this course of action other civs must be found (by workboat, and perhaps a galley) as open borders are needed.
* Building hammams can be integrated in this strategy.

[Calanthian]

Looking at the turn, I'd like to suggest two (smaller) adjustments:

1) Make OPEN BORDERS with Inca.
It will let us get more of a clue of their intentions and will increase our trade income when we do 2)

2) After the cottages are finished build the mine hill of Port Boreas, to get the workboat finished sooner and to let Port Boreas do usefull things while at POP limit. Send the workboat towards Inca.
It will increase our trade income IF they accepted the open borders (while it won't increase theirs )

[Calanthian]

HINDUISM IS FOUNDED


A) * go mathematics and masonry to build hammams

B) * perhaps there is the unexpected option to go Mysticism - Meditation - Priesthood (in total max 13 turns): to snatch away the ORACLE and it's free tech..

C) * a similar option is mys - poly - masonry - mono: this is a pretty sure shot for a religion when no one has yet founded polytheism.. (a chance at poly, a very good shot at mono)

D) * iron working



For me path C is no longer viable, as poly is already invented. And path B won't work either I suppose.

[Dinner]

Taking the later save and just chopping without doing anything else, not even bothering to change what the pops are doing, I was able to build the Oracle and get the CoL on turn 71 with math in just 3 turns later. That is just a base line and if someone takes the earlier save and really does keeps an eye on it to maximize science output and then switch everything to maximize hammer output in the right city (I used the capital) then I'm certain it could be done faster.

[Dinner]

Hmm, that save gets real hard. I still think the best thing to do is go all out for Oracle then use it to pop CoL.

[Calanthian]

Wow, why is that map so completely ****ed up and not even remotely like our screen shots? We're talking glacier ice all over the place and other things not like the screen shots. Is that just part of the utility we're using to get the saves or something?

Because this map has been remade by hand by me around turn 20.
The glacier ice was the exact border of what we saw at that moment.
If you want an updated map go ahead

[OzzyKP]

I'd prefer either of the religion approaches as it makes a HRule grab a lot easier, which will be key to growth with such a lack of resources and neighborly connections in the early game. Like I've said, +2 from a hammam isn't going to be enough for 30T+ of growth at these rates. We don't have enough neighbors and connections now (or anytime soon) to make Currency as powerful, further discounting the use of the Maths line for now, plus lacking ivory or war issues, Construction isn't so useful either. If we can pick up a religion on the way? Awesome.

I agree with this.

[Dinner]

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Here are two save files, from t51 and t58. (current turn and 7 turns later according my current plan of development.)

Wow, why is that map so completely ****ed up and not even remotely like our screen shots? We're talking glacier ice all over the place and other things not like the screen shots. Is that just part of the utility we're using to get the saves or something?

BTW my preferred course of action is indeed B where we chop Oracle and get CoL. That seems the obvious best choice of things to do with our civ at this time.

[Hercules]

I agree let's see where we are first with copper resource and if closeby then I would favour the myst/poly/masonry/priesth/monot path.

[mzprox]

I just played it agan, this time a bit differently: I used chopping to finish library two turns earlier in Capital so we could resume researching in t59. could be useful if we want religion.

[mzprox]

p BC-2000curr.CivBeyondSwordSavep BC-1680step.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here are two save files, from t51 and t58. (current turn and 7 turns later according my current plan of development.)

I don't really like the Oracle, I always find that too risky to get and only a single tech (CoL or MC usually), we could try to chop it, but then someone should provide a test game for that as I can't really do it (if i don't believe in it ).

the real choice now is mathematics first or religion/hereditary rule. Right now I'd go for mathematics, though i admit getting a religion would be nice and I also played a test game on that route (getting Hereditary rule in t74 with myst/poly/masonry/priesth/monot.)