Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Vikings (DoE)]

As a humble bystander for this war:

The Aztecs say they can prove that they did not double move. I say let them prove it before a reload is done, which effects everyone. If there was no double move then the Aztecs surprised the Ottomans. If a reload is done then the Ottomans know that the Aztecs are coming and "could" move in a way that precludes the surprise attack.

My opinion is that if there is proof that there was no double move then just let the game play on. The Ottomans got surprised and whatever may come, may come.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

I make no accusations. I don't want personal feelings, and that's what accusation do. I want the game reloaded to the beginning of this turn, and I think I am entitled to request it based on the log, period. Accusations are irrelevant. Aztec does not need to prove anything and I make no accusations. Just please do the reload as I requested.

[Russia (DoE)]

Technically you played AFTER the Ottomans. Maybe you did not encounter many such disputes, but from my experience, if you intend to go at war, it is A MUST that you avoid any actions that may lead to possible dispute. I have even seen experienced pitbossers MISS the whole turn before declaring war. This way there is no possibility anyone can claim anything, but that is extreme example. The fact stays that between your 2 consecutive logins in 2 different turns the Ottomans did not logged in. And you declared war in the second.

There were examples in this game, where a written history had to be deleted because of a reload for double moving, so this will be no precedent. It is only messy, because the host is on vacation. Maybe you two interested parties must PM him, as I have found he gets very, very quick notice he have a PM and normally he reacts very quick.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

I agree that the reload before would be the best for all parties interested.
BUT I find that this is actually a way of changing history after the fact, and that is in my opinion not in the spirit of the game.


STILL THE POINT IS:
I played my turn BEFORE you and
I did not double move (as I only logged in to see what has happened after you played your turn),
BUT hey if you insist you can get a reload AFTER you played your turn,
then you can be SURE I didn't reload.
But then exactly the same will happen as did happen..

PS. I am willing in the interest of America to sign that unconditional peace, but that is IC..


For other parties following this, his troops and his fleet got surprised by me, so the whole discussion about this is whether or not this happens..
(and on a more personal note: I am accused of doing a double move and I didn't and I can prove it..)

@Russia: I did not play last! (that is my whole point)

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Aztec. Your moral feelings about the reload are separate issue right? It matters not whether I am smaller fighting larger etc., all that matters is I asked for reload and I am entitled to one in my understanding. Are you saying only the lesser nations have the privilege of requesting reloads?

And my point was that since you logged in after me, you should have the choice between playing after me, or waiting a turn for DoW so that you can move first this turn and then you can be first to DoW next turn. What you are asking for is a very selective reload to undo your login after me. That is exactly wrong, because your login after me was not the party foul. The party foul was the fact that you moved before me THIS turn. That was the foul, and the only thing that should be undone by a reload.

So what I request RP does is reload the current turn to a point before Aztecs moved and Aztecs must either wait for me to move and then DoW and move... or Then if they want first move, they can move first this turn but not DoW, and then DoW and move first NEXT turn... otherwise it will be a "gambreaker" for me.

Another thing to consider, is that I intended to offer, and did offer American peace and return of territory. This offer is not contingent on the reload, but with a reload, America could save Washington and get Miami back with no population loss by accepting my offer. Without a reload, my army will be trapped and we will have to raze Washington depending on the tactical situation. Plus Aztecs can't give Miami back because they are at war. So without reload America loses Miami and Washington. With a reload they could get back both.

So yes this issue is a game breaker, and I am asking Azteca, in the interest of the game to put aside their joy at punishing the evil Ottomans and approve the reload. If there is no more argument it will be better for America better for me, better for the game better for everyone. You can spank my naughty butt some other time

[Russia (DoE)]

But played also last.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

It does not apply here: as I played first..

[Russia (DoE)]

Azteca, you are reading (or at least posting) the rules very selectively

03. Wartime Double Moves
a. Civilizations that are at war have to observe the turn order. The turn order is set during the first turn of the war. If the invaded party played first in the turn before the war started, then the agressor must let him play first in the next turn as well before he can declare war on him.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

Even though this discussion is unnecessary,
I understand you are looking for a way out of this mess you've gotten yourself in..
You attack a military weak state with a surprise attack and then start to discuss rules when a stronger army comes to his aid.
You simply parked your troops within range of almost my entire army and navy.


On the rules:

03. Wartime Double Moves
a. Civilizations that are at war have to observe the turn order.
The turn order is set during the first turn of the war.

1) we are at war since this turn > so a double move is technically impossible
2) I played in the same order as last turn


@ RP: if you should decide anyway on a reload although these are valid points, make sure that you take a point in time AFTER the last move of the Ottomans (in the previous turn).
Then exactly the same will happen. Otherwise it will be a real game breaker..

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

@ America- I sent you new peace request

@ Aztec - I think the way it works is you have to be the first to log out in previous turn in order to be first to move and DoW in the next turn. I remember this because this rule was enforced and stressed against me in the previous war. I said the same thing you did "I only logged in to look around etc., but I relented, as I was understanding there was no way for the other person to verify. In the end I accepted their argument and just agreed to have second move. I request now you do the same, or just wait until next turn to DoW if you want first move.

I especially insist, because the whole India-Japan turn order controversy robbed me of first move because I had to wait for that to be resolved to attack. It is very early in the turn now so the harm is minimal.

In any case, it may be a mute point after the reload since America may just accept peace.

Sorry for inconvenience. War is a messy business

[Aztecs (DoE)]

PS. on this:

Following the conquest of Miami our troops quickly discovered that a fleet of 6 galleons was docked in the harbor.

As the harbor entrance was blocked by our entire fleet, and the city was also firmly in our hands, these ships had nowhere to go.
The Ottoman sailors quickly realized this and surrendered after setting their ships on fire.

I did not know that if a harbour is captured the enemy ships disappear (or was it that because they hadn't a friendly square to escape to in range?)
(or did the ships reappear somewhere else??)

[Aztecs (DoE)]

I did not double move.
I checked in to see what had happened (as I saw a points drop of America).

Furthermore the DoW was in this turn (so technically it couldn't even have been a double move).
AND I played in the same order as previous turn: Aztec - USA - Ottoman.

[America (DoE)]

Damn Turkais, are you referring to the peace terms that I responded to? Because those aren't 'peace' terms, they're more like 'war' terms

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

@Ottoman empire: I will be home later tonight, I will be playing my turn about 10 hours from now (midnight, Paris time zone).

No prob USA.

Just a point of order... Aztec logged in and moved after me last turn and then DoW and moved before me this turn. Am I supposed to get a reload for that? I have not logged in yet to see the damages yet so maybe its not a big deal, but certainly I would not want Aztec logging in AFTER me and then Before me to DoW. Isn't that how it works just to be sure about moves?

Anyway it probably doesent matter since I offered favorable Peace to USA so probably war will be over soon.

[America (DoE)]

@Ottoman empire: I will be home later tonight, I will be playing my turn about 10 hours from now (midnight, Paris time zone).