New type of diplo game

[OzzyKP]

Deity, in the first post in this thread (which is where I got the info from) you said that Hercules was in the game (not Heraclitus).

[St Jon]

My Take on the Game.

I am, whatever Deity says, a natural builder rather than a conqueror but all things conspired against that tactic right from the start.

Being hit by France so early, and the attack was against my capital, stopped me dead and I just built Axe and Cat. I know people thought I was wrong to take Paris but when Uruk had been attacked was it really a sin? I did not know that Barbs would take another French city and he would just give up leaving only 1 that I did not even want. To find Pinchak next made an early war my only option as he is too dangerous to allow to grow. It was always my intention to cripple Maya and then wait until the clock ticked round to allow destruction, I know many of you disapproved, and I did feel guilty as by then Pinchak had left and WarningU2 had taken over but I had no Iron in my entire Empire. OK, I admit that I would have would have done it anyway.

I had incredibly fertile lands, once I got the Iron to cut down the jungle, and most 'Happy Resources' available so I could make up for low production by slaving right to the end. France went early but I would have had to take them out anyway and Maya just had to go. Apologies again for offending many of you by my actions but if I had acted differently I could easily have ended up stuck in a position like Mongolia.

The area where I was lucky was that I could be everyone's friend, I think I was the only Civ that lasted to the end that never went to war with Egypt - last turn nukes excepted, as I was too big to ignore and too useful as an ally. It was quite a joke being part of the 'Grand Alliance' fighting Egypt in defence of Rome when I never recruited a single soldier throughout it and had no interest in which side won. All I ever wanted to see were perpetual wars that I could avoid joining and keep going my own merry way.

I always knew that Russia was my real enemy as they had been hostile from our first meeting. It grew more threatening with the approach of UN construction as whichever of us built it the actual vote would be between us. Moreover, Russia knew that the size of Sumeria's population meant that a DV was never going to be possible for them so war had to come. The only reason I killed off China and established a few cities there was as a diversion and annoyance to both them and America. I never wanted that land and made no real efforts to garrison the cities with modern troops but they were just 'there' and needed to be taken to secure their south.

It was only because of Russia that Manhattan project had to be completed. I knew where their ships were and I knew that the big fleet was aimed at me not Egypt so it needed nukes to take it out. I was also well aware of Gondor being in bed with Russia and that such huge forces on my borders could only be aimed at me rather than Egypt. The double-bluff game of Egypt in telling me the exact route of the Russian fleet whilst mustering an invasion force against me was a huge worry as well. Sorry mzprox but you made an error there and ensured that Manhattan project was completed.

Apart from the early game, where I had the largest army in the world for obvious reasons, Sumeria actually controlled a huge Empire with a relatively small military. I used heavy force only on a few occasions after Maya and maintained peace and trade with everyone, apart from Priest, throughout. My rationale was that with so many borders and coasts to defend that full defence would only mean bankrupting myself. Better defend what is defendable and what is essential only and leave a reserve to react elsewhere. Only 6 cities represented critical losses whilst others could be left until counter-attack or even peace treaty.

I have enjoyed this game enormously! Being stuck in such a perilous position with so many powerful direct neighbours, plus the distant threats posed by both Russia and Hindustan, made 'diplomacy' vital. The Thread posts may have been unasked for, still fun, but actually did serve good propaganda purposes and the PM's and PYT communications were pretty much daily. The enthusiasm and energy of players was fantastic. The Role-Play was great and I think that Anon was kept better here than in any other game I have played as apart from Marcus(logged in as himself) and Pinchak(only because I know he always picks Maya) I really had little idea until very close to the end who people were. Until Deity tried to ridicule me over the Perth Test Match I was convinced that Byzantium was Cyber, Toni I thought was Rome with their explosive start, Deity I had assumed was Russia but I did suspect mzprox as Egypt when they defeated Rome so completely when attacked. I had no idea of any of the rest until Priest slipped up in negotiations by spelling THE as TEH which is a dead give-away and others could be deduced by a process of elimination. The great thing for me is that I felt no desire to even try as I was Gilgamesh fearful of Desertlord and Augustus, etc.

Best thing of all here has been the fantastic attitude of all the players! No harsh words or insults exchanged resulting in no ill-will which is a great compliment to all of us involved, Cyber for his rapid clock stopping and quick arbitration but most of all to Deity for setting up a game where it is assumed that all involved will be reasonable people and behave like adults so that no rules need to be enforced because we will just act correctly and honestly.

Thank you all for a great game and thank you most of all Robert, for hosting and quick pausing, and Deity for coming up with such a great idea.

[Robert]

deity

I think Egypt's CV is testimony to Rome's failed diplomacy and siding with their ancient foe - I could never understand this (only Gondor kept borders closed with Egypt after their failed attack against Rome where Russia and Gondor allied with you). If you'd kept a strong trusting alliance with Gondor then things would be different.

What could I do?
Keeping a bad relation with Egypt was certainly not a good idea. Rome had been destructed in wars with Egypt twice.
I suspected that Gondor would not easily invade me while, eventhough I knew that I was playing a dangerous game in our little cultural war
Fortunately you bought my ongoing excuses about me having to fight Egypt culturally. That was all bollocks. Since the first moment you founded that city on my border I had the full intention to get those tiles back in my fat cross. (ok, you founded first, then I founded, but it just disrupted my plans . So getting those tiles culturally was my #1 aim through all game I succeeded )

I did not have the intention to weaken my relation with you.
I just wanted to be friends with everybody, including Egypt.
If Rome would not have attacked Egypt early in the game, Rome might have been the big civ throughout the entire game.
I was sick of war.
Of course I made peace with Egypt.

I always thought you were The Priest so I said to myself, "That figures, just typical of that slippery swine!!!" LOL

But YOU! CYBERSHY, tut tut!!

Oh c'mon, did I not proof in full in DoC that I am 1000 times the slippery swine The Priest is!!!!
I double crossed everybody in DoC with my orchestrated attack between you, toni and mzprox, while I was supposed to pluck the fruits. (it worked perfectly, apart from the fact that I failed to actually pluck the fruits )

Sumeria can VERY CLOSE to a Gondor attack but it wasn't recently when all those Russian forces came to Rohan... THAT was for a major attack on Rome! The VERY turn that Russia and Gondor was about to take out Cumae etc etc... that bloody POM (D) built MH!!!! Stardust and Stridfer logged in together on that turn ready to launch a coordinated attack on Rome and as I logged in Stardust said "WE'RE FVCKED! Damn MH." So we pulled back from that idea and sunsequently (I think it was after that) Rome helped re-balance Rohan's culture to ease tensions. Rome seemed to be aware of these tensions but did you know that Russia and Gondor were going to fully assault you? he he

I was constantly aware of your big army on my border.
Hence the ongoing diplo messages I was sending you.
But what could I do? b/c of the 2nd (3rd) Roman/Egyptian war, Rome was completely ruined (again!)
I could not fight all my enemies anyway. All I could do was trying to buy time and have some luck.
Of course I saw the entire big Russian army. but I had not even modern armors back then. How could I fight you AND russia?
My army was like 25% of yours.

So I just tried everything to please you, indeed including sending cultural corporations your way.
That you bought that was a surprise. It didn't change anything. My cultural pressure on your tiles was too big anyway. (Same with Sumeria, btw.)

Nice to know that Sumeria saved my ass by completing the MP!
Cowards! I would have proceeded after the MP.
Egypt didn't win b/c of failed Roman diplomacy. Egypt won b/c Russia and Gondor were a bunch of cowards :P

The odds for Rome to win were slim anyway. Ever since Rome lost both wars against Egypt.
For me it was a game of survival. I would not win, but maybe I could.
You could have won. Your army was huge. Russia's army was huge. Yet you didn't attack :P

so the Egypt CV was assured and it's only because mz revealed how close he was that Sumeria and Rome finally attacked Egypt.

No, I was trying to convince all of you guys to attack Egypt for like 15 turns already by then.
In the end I went for it myself b/c all of you didn't want to!

I was watching Egypt's cultural progress very closely. I think that I even notified all of you about that like 30 turns earlier already, saying something like: "Please keep an eye on someone's cultural progress!"
I did not want to backstab my allie, but I did not want him to lose either.
Fortunately he lied to me by expanding his corps, so that I could at least try
Too bad that I was too late though
Not that I would have won otherwise

And Cybershy, you rock. Your mastery of the game is incredible - I keep thinking back to you as India (?) in HOTW 5. You totally sucked

As a matter of fact, I still suck
I may be able to start really good these days, but then I always get oversecured and lose some big war
In DoE the same happened But sssst, nobody knows my identity there yet (yeah sure... )

Speaking of diplo and posting, I think we need to rebalance this. In this game we got far too much posting from some (in a game where it was not required) and nothing from others. Even though this is highly creative and brilliant stuff (The Priest was so good I thought it was Cybershy!) I suggest for the next game we stick to ig and pyt contact only. You may disagree but I think keep the open creative role playing for the full diplo games like DoE.

I think that you confuse the posting for 'full diplogaming'.
For me every word I wrote was a part of my in-game actions. I needed to talk to cover my military weakness.
The difference is that there's no story telling. (till Hindustan decided to kill Augustus, which I could use to roleplay my attack on them. Thanks for that The Priest! It was really entertaining to answer your: "But Augustus promised...." with a "yes, but then you killed Augustus".

I also liked it to introduce Augustus' father, Julius, after he was gone, instead of his son.
I thought it was fun to give the eternal immortal Augustus..... an even more eternal immortal father
that was indeed a bit too full diplo

mzprox:

To Rome's post: I did not invite Rome because I thought I could not win the war against Babylon alone, but I wanted him to stand on my side so one less thing to worry about+they could helped me to finish the war sooner.

Well, I figured that you could do it without me, but I also feared that we would be too late.
And I just saw possibilities to expand my empire and get even more cities to whore my corporations into

And rome saying that I broke my promise.. I asked you ingame, you did not answer.. I took it as a yes

Never got that message!
Well, I think that I made it clear that I would not support your CV!
I would not have attacked you if you would not have given me this reason. I just needed a role-playing reason.
Thanks for providing one

(Just like Babylon, who killed Augustus (or over trowed my governament) which gave me a reason to DoW them)

Toni

Well Done Robert (very happy for you), i still remember when you had your first child and had us pause our midnight session Diplo games so you can change some diapers Life is interesting, i just changed Tony's some mins ago.

Thanks!!
I still remember as well
4am, playing HotW5, changing diapers as fast as I could

I think that I could do most of the child-care while deity and you were micromanaging every tile of the map every turn all over.
I never understood why it took you guys so long to end your turns. (it gave me some diaper changing time though )
Now I do the same (only in pitboss games. can't manage to do that in SP games, then I just want to start the next turn. I have no patience)

OzzyKP

Congrats to Robert as well!!!

Thanks!!
How are you doing with part one of the fathering process? (which is: find a potential mother)

St Jon

I know many of you disapproved, and I did feel guilty as by then Pinchak had left and WarningU2 had taken over but I had no Iron in my entire Empire. OK, I admit that I would have would have done it anyway.

Haha, I did not disapprove, it was a rule of this game.
I just hated it that I was attacking Egypt, the (2nd) biggest power on earth, while you were having a ball carving up small nations!
Then Babylon started to eat the Celts and the Vikings. And I had nothing! It's so unfair!
Next time I'll carve you up :P

[deity]

Deity, in the first post in this thread (which is where I got the info from) you said that Hercules was in the game (not Heraclitus).

Yeah I know but I'm suspecting it was Heraclitus who played. Can anyone verify this?

[deity]

Cyber, I loved that multiple corps strategy... very powerful!

My problem is that sure I could easily have had a big war with Rome or Sumeria quite successfully (before MH) but that would play into Egypt's hands. But, yes, I should have listened to Russia and kicked the cr@p out of someone, anyone, whilst I had a chance

[Toni]

St Jon you have to be thankful to Deity, you have no idea how many times i was on my way to take you out, but he dissagreed with my plans, so plans were put on hold everytime. Latest attack was cancelled because of my little little boy, being constantly at the hospital. Russia's Nukes where going to fall on Sumeria, seeing that you didn't even had the SDI. That russian fleet was never mend to be hidden, it was close only to aggravate you and push you to give me the reasons to send the worlds largest army into your territories.

At one time i had so many spies at your cities lost count, maybe 30-40 spies, the plan was to use them to revolt most your northern cities and pick them easilly with my Modern Armours. Even if Egypt would have joined i would have enough time via the rivolts to raze (no need to hold at least 5-6 major cities.

But Deity was maybe right, I play just too nice and never pressed on with this plans of mine, even having the opportunity a front of me so many times.

Nukes are bad for the game, but seing that we have a CV coming, i was just going to use them for the fun of it. Last time i was in the game you where around 10 turns from having a SDI with i believe 4 Nukes (not counting the tactical ones, because they are usless) So 13 Russian nukes would have done a clean job, with some good luck you would have hit me with 2 of yours which iwouldn't have minded having my 12 hit their targets.

Funny think is that the turn before Egypt build his SDI, i was thinking of telling Deity/Byzantium who had around 11 nuke shimself to attack Egypt and bring them down big. can you imagine with around 23 nukes total Egypt would have easilly been throw back to the middle ages, yes this may have not have stopped their CV but would have given some joy to others civ. Well the nice factor i guess came in again and i just ended the turn with not suggesting it to Deity. I did honor the none agression pact with Egypt. maybe i was the first to spot that Egypt was aimming for a CV, still i sat back, RL had me preoccupied.

Me and Diety feared that Rome was playing too close with Egypt (well at least Deity did not trust Rome, especially when Rome moved vs babylon that really killed our trust towards Rome), thus never trusted that they will join us against Egypt, because that attack on Egypt was coming, how couldn't it with a joint army of more than 200 modern armours and more than 60 Russian bombers and 30 jet fighers plus 100 other units gunship and other modern units, Egypt would have had a horrific time trying to slow us down. If Rome would have only shown its willingness to want to kill Egypt some 30 turns ago we would have moved vs Egypt.

So i changed plans and as Deity said 1 turn away of invading Rome, still the compilation of the MP killed all of this, what a perfect timing that right turn on the grand attack

I was amazed how Deity had for so many centuries the largest army and never wanted to use it even more amazed when i caught up and build the same size army, two nations sworn in loyalty, we just stood there and let the game slip through OH old deity what did we do

By the way thanks deity for wanting to vote for a DV for Russia, i never expected less Overall i am very glad how the game went for Russia, with not the best start opportunities like some others and little land still thanks to the gods(Ozzy) for the new world being close to us we could grow properly.

I did turn Russia to become the most productive nation and with the largest army for the last thousand years.

For the record I have in civstats around 560 private message, some very nice diplomacy.

[Egypt (DoD)]

Even if for just one turn, during the game I was at war with :

Rome 4 times
Babylon 3 times
Gondor 2 times
Russia, America, Sumeria, Mongolia, (Vikings) 1 times.
Killed around 500 units, lost around 300

Next time more of you should join the fun. .

(I'm taking a break now from civ for a while, waiting to try out civ V again when pitboss arrives)

[England (DoE)]

Don't take a break from DoE!!

[Egypt (DoD)]

I'm not in DoE , I was subbing for France and for india for a short time
(and ofc had war during that time with both of them .. and I'm a peacefull builder type.. I swear! :P)

[OzzyKP]

Even if for just one turn, during the game I was at war with :

Rome 4 times
Babylon 3 times
Gondor 2 times
Russia, America, Sumeria, Mongolia, (Vikings) 1 times.
Killed around 500 units, lost around 300

Next time more of you should join the fun. .

[Robert]

(I'm taking a break now from civ for a while, waiting to try out civ V again when pitboss arrives)

boooooh @ mzprox taking a break from Civ
diplogaming in civ5..... I don't see it happening very soon. The game lacks a lot of interesting diplo-mechanisms (to name only one: religions).
Perhaps after an XP or 2 it'll be interesting.

No news about the Pitboss server either

[OzzyKP]

I think it'd be great for diplogaming. Religion is cool and all, and important, but it doesn't make or break diplogames. City states alone I think would more than make up for the lack of religion.

Once Pitboss comes to Civ5 I'd be interested in doing a diplogame.

[OzzyKP]

OzzyKP

Congrats to Robert as well!!!

Thanks!!
How are you doing with part one of the fathering process? (which is: find a potential mother)

I found her! Been 5 months now. Not ready to pop the question quite yet, but certainly by this time next year.

[Robert]

I found her! Been 5 months now. Not ready to pop the question quite yet, but certainly by this time next year.

Congrats!
5 years is the longest period you ever dated?
You still have the beard?

[OzzyKP]

Year and a half is my longest, in college. Now she's one of my best friends and actually lives 3 blocks down with her husband and newborn son.

Never made it to 5 years, hahah, I sure hope if I was with someone for 5 years we would have been married!

And totally still have the beard.