The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Persia (DoC)]

OOC: I really don't see what India and Korea have to do with this war. England: ok, Byzantium: ok, but for the rest?
It makes no sense story wise. ooc reasons are not good reasons to get yourselve involved in a war.
It can't be like: "Oh, Greece is so small, let's help them."

Let's all get back to our stories lines. India: Neither Greece nor Arabia is Tao, so stay out of it. Korea: you have no dealings with Greece, so stay out of it.
It's not fair towards Arabia to have to deal with all those big nations. Especially after Greece was silent for so long.

Let Arabia and Greece have their war. And let them find a good ally if they want. England and Byzantium sound fair.

If India jumps into it then I see no other option to jump into it myself as well, causing a stupid world war for only ooc reasons.
If there's a world war it should be b/c of Tao reasons (India) or enlightenment reasons (Byzantium) or Hastogianistic reasons (Persia) or anti big-nations reasons (Korea) or power reasons (England) or resist the powers reasons (union of smaller nations).

But please not for some stupid Greek-Arabian war that's only polluted by all those big mouths. So give this war back to Arabia and Greece.
Arabia deserves this b/c they prepared it, and had this silent neighbor for way too long. Not to mention that they deserve a chance to expand as well. (or to fail it in a fair way)
Greece deserves it b/c he's new, let him find his own way.

So please all withdraw the nonsense and get back to normal again.
This is not a game! This is REALITY! Roleplay it correctly!

[Persia (DoC)]

korea waits to see byz reaction to this move by india, do they threaten thme too only threaten smaller nations like korea..

it ok for india to be hleping ?

It all started with KOREA and ENGLAND threatening Arabia.

These games aren't fun for small nations if the big nations want to get involved with everything. It's 1420 AD, not 1980 or something.
In the middle ages China really came not to the aid of the British, and America would certainly not sail out to help Belgium against the bullying French.

Role playing includes living up to the age you role play.
And I will hand out some 1's this month if big nations can't role play the age they live in or depart their storylines only to show their muscles.

[India (DoC)]

@Persia

1, get out of the story thread already with the ooc things

2, what is your problem with world wars?

3, and most important: do you think India intervenes for Greece's nice eyes? If you'd know what is the true reason then.. well you should not let me anyway.. but KEEP IT IN CHARACTER


Grrrrrr

[England (DoC)]

Did Voula ever had nice eyes?

[Greece (DoC)]

subbing for two civs

i am not an original player but currently i am subbing for two civs that may become cooperative.

do people prefer i only play one civ?

i suggested to RP that i could help out by taking Greece but did not expect conflict of interest.

Greece is in bad shape even before the war so on one hand i think it's OK.

but on the other you may prefer i stay with just one civ.

i will not pick Greece as my preferences and I think I stirr the pot some which is making interesting game.

tell me what you think as RP may not have another for Greece and i like doing some post.

[Greece (DoC)]

i agree with india grrr but RP too nice to say that to!

[Arabia (DoC)]

OOC

I am back from vacation. I am posting what little story I have time for. My work is a priority.

When I return home or prior to work I play my turn and try to summarize my reasons / story as best I can with the limited time available. If nothing changes I don't post a story for the sake of it. I simply don't have time for elaborate story lines, characters, dynasty setup etc that others have playing this game. I'm sorry. If you would rather I'll drop out and let Ozzy permanently play my turns (as he set me on this course of war), he can. I am honestly getting tired of the digs at me for not posting stories and results of the voting.

I have posted a few short updates this morning and last night. I hope that appeases the game police.

Arabia is back, Ozzy is not subbing for Arabia anymore.
I'd say, if there's no diplomacy/story talking from Arabia, just take it that way: no news from Arabian front.

[Persia (DoC)]

@Persia

1, get out of the story thread already with the ooc things

2, what is your problem with world wars?

3, and most important: do you think India intervenes for Greece's nice eyes? If you'd know what is the true reason then.. well you should not let me anyway.. but KEEP IT IN CHARACTER


Grrrrrr

It's the story thread that went ooc with all those big nations jumping into a tiny Greece-Arabian war.
I can't see the difference between Korea's ooc and Korea's IC.
And your reasons for intervening in the war are not story-backed up either, thus also ooc, as far as I can see.


2. I have no problems with world wars. I do have a problem with ooc world wars. This is a story/role playing game. We should stick to that.

It's either story/roleplaying or normal multiplaying.


3. Sure you have your reasons, and they may be good in your own mind, but part of diplogaming is to keep it fun for all players.
There's no fun for small civs if they can't even start a small scale war without getting all the major powers of the world getting involved.

That turns all small nations into pawns on the board.

You guys are keen to jump into every war. First Egypt/Inca, now Arabia/Greece. It all ends up in one boring stale math.

I continue to insist that our continent is the most interesting continent because we just don't do that. And look, Hascon consists of 3 nations (apart from Persia) that are strong, independant and able to determine their own gamepath.

Like I said: it makes no sence roleplaying-wise to get involved in every war. It's not 1980 yet. You guys all run your civ as if they are all post-modern civilized leaders. It takes the fun from the game. As if a big power in the 15th century would come to the aid of some small nation only because they pitty them.

That is my problem. Not a world war. I actually love world wars. But only for good role/story reasons, not for just showing muscles.

So get over your big (well deserved!!) ego and pull yourself out of this war and let Greece and Arabia have their fun. And if Arabia goes too far we will use the measured war rule to contain him.
Imagine yourself, being Arabia (or Inca). You have a small civ, but are dedicated playing the game. Then you decide to try something, prepare a war for a long time, and start it. A small scale war, far away in a corner of the world.

But within 3 turns it's not your war anymore!
Everybody tries to get itself involved.
Put yourself into the shoes of Arabia or Inca.
If every war from now on will involved the big powers, then there will be no war anymore but only a boring stalemath game.

[India (DoC)]

a few bits:

IC i don't really care what happens with greece.. but I had a very good reason to do what I did and I'm sure you will know it eventually.

OOC: I don't like what happens there.. I'm sorry for Arabia that the situation has changed and we got an active player instead of the old one-I would had support the let's split up greece between the other weak civs-but it was not up to me/us, and now this war is already over to be measured.. hardly fun for Greece. But again it is not the reason I joined and other players intervention to this conflict is inevitable anyway, we may have a fun war.

I don't really understand your reasoning about the dates...sure it's not the 20. century earth, but an alternate history. Information streaming more slowly but it is balanced with the longer turns, transportation still slow so unlikely my troops can get there before it ends.. unless there wil lbe a bigger war from it.

[India (DoC)]

oh and btw what about Persia's forcing the peace between Ottoman and Russia... I don't care about that, but that war is much more balanced than this current one when one player lost half of its country already.

[England (DoC)]

and let Greece and Arabia have their fun. And if Arabia goes too far we will use the measured war rule to contain him

* Do you call a measured war taking half the cities of the smallest nation?

Sorry in advance but i need some clearification here:

So from what i understand from the Original Arabs they said that "Ozzy (as he set me on this course of war)" When did we had a sub come in and just for his own fun decides to go for war, even if the org player isn't aware of this?

* To Ozzy and Robert, is this all just happening because Ozzy suggested that we split the Greeks. And when he saw that this would not happen went for the war?

* Persia you do forget that Byzantium helped Egypt by gifting them units, so at least point your fingures to all bigger civs.

Also I would like to know which other civ the Greek player is playing as well. We agreed that we will have a sub with the name, to know if its a sub or the org player.

[England (DoC)]

one player lost half of its country already.

Exactly and you just forgot to say the smallest civ as well.

[Persia (DoC)]

1. I think that I posted in the story thread already that Arabia should keep measured war in mind indeed. I agree that 3 cities is too much, considering Greece's small size.

2. India: I do believe that you have a reason, but are you sure that it's not an ooc reason? (ooc might be: it helps me to gain better results in this game)

3. I agree, India, that it was already too much before you entered. But that just pushed it over the edge for me.

4. The dates.... of course 1980 doesn't have to be 1980 in the game, but please keep in mind that ancient leaders are not like post-modern civilized leaders. (but that's bothering me throughout the entire game)

5. Russia razed the only Fat-Hastogian city of the Ottomans. My leader is (was) a fundamentalistic Fat Hastogianist. It's a perfect storyline.
But yes, I'm pulling some strings now and then. And like I said, England and Byzantium can be involved as well. They are neighbours. (of course everybody can, it's not to me to decide who can or who cannot, but imho england and byzantium 'can')

I hope that big civs will restrain themselves and only pull some strings now and then.

@England:
1. no, it's not measured anymore. And as soon as we're past this 'everyone jumping on board' thing, I'll be the first to start a "Arab, keep measured war in mind" petition.

2. Yes, Byzantium also got involved. (and as a matter of fact, so did I when I tried to scare the Koreans out of it. which was an ooc reason. I made it b/c I did not dig Korea's ooc reason. But now I think that was wrong, and I'd better do it this way)

And again, I have no problems with allies being involved, especially not if it makes sense. I think you helping Greece makes sense and Byz helping Arabia also makes sense.

[Persia (DoC)]

Exactly and you just forgot to say the smallest civ as well.

But maybe it would have signed peace already if it was not getting false hope from big friends all the time.
Maybe this war could have been resolved already with a '1 city to Arabia, rest returned to greece' solution, where Arabia pays some costs.

But now it's getting bigger and bigger.

[Robert]

Ok, Persia: you made your point. Let England/India respond, and then let's end this discussion. It's up to everybody to do with it whatever they want to do with it.

England:
- I can confirm that Arabia already had invasion plans. It actually wanted to start the war when he returned. Ozzy thought that he should push it a bit forward b/c it was a better moment. Arabia apparently doesn't disagree with that. (eventhough he might have thought it would be more fun to do it himself)

- So Ozzy might have made the decision to go to war earlier by himself, he did this in the line of thinking of Arabia, with the best interest of Arabia in mind. Which is what he should do as a sub.

- Considering measured war, Greece should indeed not be hurted too much. 3 cities sounds like way too much indeed. Arabia should keep that in mind and offer a peace offer that's acceptable and within the concept of measured war.

How many cities does Greece have at the moment? How many 'big' cities of Greece were captured?