The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Robert]

It's not in your gmail.
I've pm'ed your password to you. (both for voting and gmail)

the diplo gmail box is here: http://mail.google.com/a/diplo.plomp.eu/

[Robert]

Everybody is now free to trade Ancient techs!
Remember to report every ancient tech trade here!
Ancient techs can only be traded one tech for one tech! (or 2 for 2, etc.)

Ancient techs are:
MYSTICISM
MEDITATION
POLYTHEISM
PRIESTHOOD
MONOTHEISM
FISHING
THE WHEEL
AGRICULTURE
POTTERY
SAILING
WRITING
HUNTING
MINING
ARCHERY
MASONRY
ANIMAL HUSBANDRY
BRONZE WORKING

[Rasputin]

Everybody is now free to trade Ancient techs!
Remember to report every ancient tech trade here!
Ancient techs can only be traded one tech for one tech! (or 2 for 2, etc.)

Ancient techs are:
MYSTICISM
MEDITATION
POLYTHEISM
PRIESTHOOD
MONOTHEISM
FISHING
THE WHEEL
AGRICULTURE
POTTERY
SAILING
WRITING
HUNTING
MINING
ARCHERY
MASONRY
ANIMAL HUSBANDRY
BRONZE WORKING

so anyone still needing some ?

[Russia (DoC)]

russia needs pretty much everything in the religious department...

[Korea (DoC)]

russia needs pretty much everything in the religious department...

Come trade with me Brother !

If i have anything you need it will be freely traded.

[The Capo]

I will change this game... watch me... I WILL be back...

[Robert]

Welcome Back Capo!
I assume that this post means you wanna be on the potential (perm) sub-list?
You'll be 3rd in line, First Ozzy (temp only), then deity, then The Capo.

That's quite an advanced sub-list!!

[Robert]

IMPORTANT

All remember that ancient techs can only be traded in tech for tech trades!!
You can't give a tech to another nation without receiving a tech in return!

Allowed:
China gives Archery to Vietnam
Vietnam gives Masonry to China

Allowed:
China gives archery and priesthood to Vietnam
Vietnam gives polytheism and masonry to China

NOT allowed:
China gives archery to Vietnam
Vietnam gives nothing in return

NOT allowed:
China gives archery and masonry to Vietnam
Vietnam gives (only) polytheism in return

This is what Rule 4b says:
4b. When 4 civs have advanced to the next age (ancient, classical, medieval, renaissance, industrial, modern, future) all techs of the age before the past age can be traded freely in a 1 tech for 1 tech trade without the need to spend vouchers.

[India (DoC)]

While I see why these 1 to 1 trades are preferable it just complicates things. Current situation: I have offered a trade to the Incas. (I only needed archery). Next time I loged in I had a tech offer from Greece-something for archery-which I had accepted- I didnt know then why the trade with the Incas hadnt worked-as it turned out He havent logged in since my offer-when they did I had already had archery-so maybe they should had refuse that offer if they see they were not giving anything in return-but doesnt really make difference.

[Robert]

Pitboss trades are quite dangerous!
It's better to agree upon trades in PM's b/c the nature of the pitboss game can have ackward results.

Example:
- Civ A Offers World map for World map to Civ B
- Civ A logs into the game again before Civ B could login
- Civ A declares war
- Civ B logs in and receives a World Map and cease fire for World Map and cease fire trade
(we had this in BtP and it resulted in quite a mess!)

Example:
- Civ A offers Philosophy for Feudalism to Civ B
- Civ A logs in again before Civ B logins, in the meanwhile Civ C offered Feudalism to Civ A for Civil Service, Civ A Accepts.
- Civ B logs in and accepts Philosophy for nothing

Who now lost the voucher?

----

Technically India now lost a voucher b/c it gave a tech to Inca with nothing in return.
I don't think any of us should go zealoat on this. I'd say: just let's remember this and Inca should return a (free) med tech to India when they are released.

But please, all keep in mind that trading with a 3rd party doesn't remove your offer to a 2nd party! This includes resources, gold, techs and whatever else we can come up with!

[India (DoC)]

Forget it Robert, I hadnt lost any voucher because I didnt do anything wrong.
I had offered polythiesm for archery and even wrote to Inca that this is a voucher free trade.
Next I saw was that my trade with Inca probably hadnt worked because Greece was offering me archery for meditation. again I didnt do anything wrong by accepting that trade..

[The Priest]

Two thoughts from me:

1. India, you didn't intend to do anything wrong, but in fact you did give a tech to the Inca when the rules say you can only exchange them one-for-one. I don't think it matters in this case, and particularly because the intention was completely honourable, I think we should just pass on. But I too noted the Inca's post and was about the post saying 'hang on ancient techs need to be exchanged not given away'. I think that there is a logic behind the exchange not give away rule, but logic or not, its the rule and if we are to change it, we need to change it so that we can all give away (and so gain favour with other nations).

2. I think it is a really worthwhile reminder from RP of the oddities and dangers of the in-game trading system. The situation RP describes in which an earlier as yet unresponded to trade offer was responded to causing an unintended cease-fire to a recently declared war, basically destroyed BtP. It kind of recovered afterwards, but never really did, since the accusations which came from it poisoned everything. Nothing can be done about it, and fortuantely this case doesn't matter at all, and doesn't need any action as a result, but its great to have the reminder for us all. In the end we have to accept responsibility for the trading options we give out in-game even if they don't end up working out as we expected. (After all that is what Arabia and Russia had to accept recently).

[Robert]

India: notice how I wrote "Technically India lost a voucher..." but then continued in the next line saying that we shouldn't go zealoat over this, and suggested a better solution.

But from now on, especially now everybody has been warned we all should keep in mind that somebody has to pay for a mistake!
I'd advise: never offer the same trade to two different civs at the same time! (or accept a trade from civ C while you just offered it to civ B)

again I didnt do anything wrong by accepting that trade..

No, you didn't do anything wrong, but technically you lost a voucher when the Inca accepted the trade you had already made with Greece.
But once again, I do not advocate you to lose that voucher, let's just fix this by Inca offering you a free tech in return somewhere in the future.

[India (DoC)]

India: notice how I wrote "Technically India lost a voucher..." but then continued in the next line saying that we shouldn't go zealoat over this, and suggested a better solution.

Ok, I'm misunderstood then . I will be more carefull in the future

[Rasputin]

ALL

I think my poor civ will be needing a Perm sub as it seems that i am now cut off due to my poor negotiating skills.

It is to the detriment of my civ and there fore is restictive.

Deity or Capo please step forwards and PM me.

I see no reason to continue when i have shown i cant organsie a booze up in a brewery.


I will of course continue to play till a PErm sub is found.

Thanks for this.