The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Orb (DoC)]

I think there are some you worry more about others and less about themselves. Here is some helpful advice. Instead of worring about how others are higher then you or your playing ability why not focuse on other things like ways to make your civ better or using diplo to get the help you need.

In my short experience in diplo I have learned one thing. Diplo as in life is not always fair. Some start off better then you some worse . All you can do it try the very best you can and enjoy the journey while you can.

[Korea (DoC)]

Korea you seem to live in make-believe world of your own.

1. Spirit of the rules - you threaten changing your votes depending on whether people do what you want in-game - which is a massive rule break of the spirit as well as the letter of the rules.
2. Its not true that 'I understnad the larger nations putting presure on you guys'. I have traded two classical trades, both with smaller nations, both were completely freely offered (one by them, one by me) no pressure from anyone. I didn't accept the trade you offered involving feudalism because its not a classical tech. Mzprox is exactly right - I could have done classical trades with other large powers but chose to do it with smaller ones instead.
3. You are not small! Current scores you are exactly in the middle.

The issue about how to keep it a good game for everyone is a real one but complex. But the answer isn't make-believe ranting about the peopel who happen to be higher scoring at the moment. (Look at Russia - smaller than you bringing down the mighty Persians!).

the rules quyite clearly state i give my attitude score based on how i percieve you to be playing the game. my opinion is the style of postingyou sent me detailing a lawyers response to my issue, is not good attitude so you reieve low votes.

If you or others think i suck at the attiude then give me low votes. i dont care about the attiude votes they are just sunbjective a perception of a reality not rea.

so yesi will not give you voted becasue in my opinion , you are lawyer and i hate lwayers.

Score does not mean power high... i hav eno army , i dont care who knows, come invade me if that what you do to weak civs.. being middle jsut shows i got some citys and some population starting to grow. no army no production base.

So you and everyone esle get of your high horses and stop telling my to attack someone i have about 3 offensive uints which inclludes one chariot , and two macemen.

if that is aforce worth reckomning with then wow you guys must be having no archers anywhere andof course no longbowmen.


The rules for freetech trading should be it is not allowed for the top 4 civs, if that changes overthe game great. but at point of trading no free techs allowed. that way they cant freetrade amonhst themsleves

if you want a normal civ MP game then go play one. last time i looked this was a diplo game.

go read the DIPLO FAQ it mentions it was a style made for ANY one. GOOD OR BAD palyers. I dont see that happeneing here, the better palyerts keep winning or being in the top 4. you may thinkl that ok for the best palyers, but it not what DIPLO was about. DIPLO was supposed to be more of a recreational social version of CIV not the competive best always wins. people speak of learning to get better and then i can win etc etc. DIPLO is not supposedto be about getting better, it is about (again read the FAQ made by OZZY) ANYONE playing and ANYONE being able to do well because the rules woudl be there to EVEN up the game.

Why you think Vouchers were borughtin , ruleson tech trading etc.

It wasnt to help the top 4 keep wiining ,it was an aritfial barrier put in palce to try and help the lwoer civs get techs . then we added the free techs for lower eras. again to try and help less able players to catch up.

So stop complaining and telling me to shutup, this is not a NORMAL CIV MP game it is not about the best player winning. DIPLO is about eveing up the palying field. if you dont like DIPLO then dont play. but dont come and take the name DIPLO and change it to what you want.

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Korea you seem to live in make-believe world of your own.

1. Spirit of the rules - you threaten changing your votes depending on whether people do what you want in-game - which is a massive rule break of the spirit as well as the letter of the rules.
2. Its not true that 'I understnad the larger nations putting presure on you guys'. I have traded two classical trades, both with smaller nations, both were completely freely offered (one by them, one by me) no pressure from anyone. I didn't accept the trade you offered involving feudalism because its not a classical tech. Mzprox is exactly right - I could have done classical trades with other large powers but chose to do it with smaller ones instead.
3. You are not small! Current scores you are exactly in the middle.

The issue about how to keep it a good game for everyone is a real one but complex. But the answer isn't make-believe ranting about the peopel who happen to be higher scoring at the moment. (Look at Russia - smaller than you bringing down the mighty Persians!).

[mzprox]

I also thought we should have a system helping to those who are in lower position and I understand Korea's concern (though the story thread defiantely not the place to discuss it), but: what you are suggesting is not a good solution:
If small civs won't trade with big civs then the big civs will trade with each other-ultimately changes nothing
If we forbid the top 4 to trade these techs then why not the 5th? the 6th? or just the top 3?
Anyway those civs who have answered my proposal said that we shouldnt have any extra rule to help the less fortunate civs so I guess it stays as it was, maybe for next game we will consider something.

[Korea (DoC)]

my posts wee all carefully contrsucted IC posts. Many real world countries are concerned about the major nations in the owlrd hav ing all the power.


so now at least i know who the Byzantine leader is i can deal with that.


but relaity is as i have said many times the FREE TRADE rule was brpught into help the less developed nations gain some free techs. To trade these free techs with the larger nations is so worng. I understnad the larger nations putting presure on you guys,m but for god sake dont do it. it is not the spirit of the rule

oh i forgot someof you dont care about the spirit of the rules only what a lawyer can use.

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Persia, definitely understand the annoyance but I think Ozzy is right that the same actions can be seen in different ways, which is of course why we have votes so we don't have to argue out what people think of each other, we can just vote.

Two things to helps:

1. We keep as strictly as we can to the story=in character, org = out of character distinction. I think RP should just delete posts which don't follow this - if people want to repost they can. Or if RP doesn't want to because he is player and can get accused of bias (since we all know he is the Ethiopians) Ozzy could do it. And occ includes for exmpale reference to 'big four countries' etc. which are not in character ideas (as someone reminded us on here recently)- any post in story with taht sort of reference Ozzy should just delete.

2. The rule set in this game is great. Just one improvement needed - we play without the scores being visible in game. Will solves lots of this. Its too easy for our views of the game to be shaped by those numbers in the corner. Epionage would become much mroe important if my only way of knowing whether I have a greater production than the Romans is by EP, not by guessing because of score.

(and of course beer always helps).

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Oh.. no.. an other civ complaining ooc in the story thread..no, wait: it's Korea again..
Persia, don't take it personally: I too got the "I'm destroying the diplo spirit" and "this game is over anyway"

Me too. In fact Korea recently threatened me with giving me low votes for the rest of the game because I didn't want to give him a voucher (hows that for in-character, out-of-character confusion).

i cant beat you up i a small nation so jsut ignore me , but it will cost you my votes for restof game...

[England (DoC)]

Just for the record:

Russia: extra attitude b/c of handling the voucher issue!!

What no one knows is that England agreed to trade with Russia a more expensive tech for a cheaper one to fix the Russia mistake.

But hey no body knew

[England (DoC)]

There is still war between Inca and England. Best that the timer be left as it is 23-24hrs for a couple of more days.

[Mali (DoC)]

To those of you that commented in the votes about stories, I appreciate the requests. Unfortunately, my creativity and time prohibit me from posting more than I do with pretty pictures. I do try to stay on top of what's going on around me, but I'm just not a story teller, I'm a gamer.

I saw no comments regarding attitude, yet I got the lowest this month in terms of rating. For those of you that rated me low in this area, please let me know why so that I can improve. I am 100% committed to this game and try very hard to play every turn. I've made a lot of effort diplomatically to work with my neighbors (even if Egypt thinks I was a bit harsh)

[Persia (DoC)]

Thanks for making that clear. Really appreciated. With this knowledge I'd even say: "Give Ozzy a vote"
My msg are just that I'm a bully IG, that doesn't mean that I'm selfish ooc. I have tried to help Russia. Indeed, I did that after I broke them. That's the paradox. The paradox of diplogaming.

[OzzyKP]

I never said there was anything wrong with invading a neighbor and taking their city. As I said, that is part of the game and you did it very well. Lord knows these games would be more interesting if more people would invade their neighbor and take cities. Good job for having the courage to risk a war, good job being successful, good job for getting a great gain out of taking a neighbor's city.

You've cultivated this bad-boy, evil-civ persona, and I think it is great! Too few civs try to play the bad guy. Everyone tries to pretend to be Mother Teresa, all while going after their own selfish goals. Up to now you've always been honest about playing the bully. I think it is great! More civs should be honest about their role playing in the game. If I were in the game and voting I'd give you lots of attitude points. It takes a lot of courage to play the bully.

So don't misunderstand my comment, there is nothing at all wrong or bad about invading another civ and stealing their city, nothing wrong either with playing the character of a bully. It just isn't very charitable.

[Persia (DoC)]

@Britannia, Thanks!
I don't want to look good. I only want to counter the accusations that I'm selfish.

But I'd better stop trying to defend myself, it only makes myself look worse. there's no answer to guys who aren't looking for anything but their own truth anyway.

I'm sorry for flooding the thread with my defense posts.

[Orb (DoC)]

@Persia.

If you really wanted to make yourself look good you should tell more about your part in Britannia's rise from the bottom. Couldn't have done it without ya

[Persia (DoC)]

@Ozzy, apparently you can't see that it's possible that someone both takes a city from another civ in a war, and then follows it up by trying to help the other to recover.

To me that's one of the important parts of diplo gaming.
It's both a war game where one can lose, as it's a 'social' game where players help each other.
I'm sorry that you're a black/white thinker who can't see that both are possible at the same time.