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**Robert** · March 5, 2009, 11:26

Okay, now I am completely confused as to what is going on. First of all, am I supposed to go first or after Greece this next turn now?

You go first because I was foolish enough to draft a rifleman in Argos AFTER you and maya had played your turn, which effectively took away my 'first move' advantage

Capo capo, calm down.
I had done the upgrading and reinforcing 2 turns ago
Then I decided to pause the upgrade for 1 turn to give you a chance to keep up (since you lost a turn)

If you would not have lost a turn and I would not have paused all activitiet around Knossos, things would have been exactly the same.

Last turn I did not move any unit towards Knossos nor did I do any upgrade.
Seriously, I did do nothing wrong, nor did I get any 'huge advantage' or something.

If you believe otherwise, please explain it calmly.
I get the idea that you are shocked to find out my pretty well defended city of Knossos, but that has not been done by unfair behaviour. If you think different, please explain me what kind of behavior gave me an unfair advantage?

**Robert** · March 5, 2009, 11:28

That is really messed up Cyber, further you are an ******* for attempting to take advantage of an OOC allowance that I made simply because I felt some sympathy for you, luckily you got what was coming to you and you know what I am talking about.

I seriously do not know!
Please explain it. Let's try to work it out before it becomes huge again.
I think there is a misunderstanding cause by the fact that you completely miscalculated how strong my defence army could grow in only 2 turns.

Cyber got a HUGE advantage from the whole situation, he fooled everyone. I'm going to keep playing, but this is nonsense and a reload should have happened.

Please explain how I got an advantage!

**Robert** · March 5, 2009, 11:43

For the correct chronological order:

1635 Korea Declares war and moves 1 tile into Sparta (2 tiles from Knossos)
____ Sparta starts upgrading and moving reinforcements
1640 Sparta double moves his great engineer,
____ Sparta upgrades and moves reinforcements
____ Korea does not move (on purpose)
1645 Sparta moves back the GE so that Korea can grab it
____ Sparta moves reinforcements
____ Korea moves army 1 tile next to Knossos
____ Korea keeps the GE alife and continues peace negotiations
1650 Sparta deliberately does not upgrade armies nor moves forces to Knossos
____ Sparta waits till at least half of the turn is over and uses his GE for a GA
____ Korea moves his armies 1 tile away from Knossos, now it is 2 tiles away from Knossos
1655 .............

**The Capo** · March 5, 2009, 11:49

I did explain calmly, just because I am cursing doesn't mean I am not calm. I curse all the time. But I can't sit here and do this right now, I'll do it when I get home.

**Pitboss Maya** · March 5, 2009, 19:40

They were told about a weak Sparta that could easily be conquered

OOC: Yeah, before the Spartan player manipulated the turns so he could reinforce Knossos with a double move.

**Pitboss Russia** · March 5, 2009, 20:14

Could we please keep all this OOC **** on the organisation thread!

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya View Post

OOC: Yeah, before the Spartan player manipulated the turns so he could reinforce Knossos with a double move.

**Pitboss Maya** · March 5, 2009, 21:46

For the correct chronological order:

What the hell is this? If anything this proves Capo's point. Did you think by posting this people would just look at it and say, "oh well he is posting it so there must not be anything wrong here."

It is quite clear from what you posted that you already had your reinforcements completely in place by 1945... hence, not moving anything in 1950 is irrelevant.

If things had gone as they should have Korea would have been able to attack Knossos in 1645 before you were able to legally play that turn. You would have only had 1635 and 1640 to reinforce.

Since you manipulated the hell out of things to gain an advantage, you had 1635, 1640, 1645 to reinforce and upgrade. 1645 was a key year because had you not CHEATED AS NOTED BY 3 INDEPENDENT JUDGES, Korea would have been able to attack Knossos before you were allowed to play that turn. Considering you obtained railroad only in 1640, this is a big deal.

Then you go and use your GE anyway, even though the judges agreed you should loose it for double moving.

Your a cheat Cyber. You look at these OOC rule debates like they are some sort of contest of who is more clever... which they are not. You are not sly or smart for manipulating this to your advantage. Your just a cheat. And what makes matters worse is that as the host you have the final say regarding reloads... even though your rule says the turn should have been reloaded.

You may have fooled the masses, who are probably tired of this whole deal and are not really paying attention anymore... but you didn't fool me. I knew EXACTLY what you were doing from the very beginning. In fact, at the beginning of this game I knew you would pull this crap. I even wrote about it, which was then deleted.

Well, I'm not standing for it. One of three things is going to happen...

1. The turn gets reloaded to 1635 with Korea moving first as it should have several days ago.

2. I draft and slave my nation down to size 1 cities just to put Greece as far behind as I can before quitting the game.

3. I just outright quit, because frankly, I'm tired of spending an hour a night pointing out your sneaky crap to a bunch of people who don't really care because it doesn't affect them directly, but a reload would. Everyone should be aware that this will happen to them if they ever find themselves at odds with this host. I called it near the start of the game, and sure enough it happened almost EXACTLY like I predicted.

I hate to pull the "I'm going to quit" card, and I'm sure alot of people wouldn't care anyway, but this is TOTAL BULL$HIT. If you were not the host and thus in control of the reload button none of this would have happened. You are using your position of control to save yourself, and it is WRONG. I'm not dealing with this anymore, and regardless of what happens I will NEVER play with you again, host or not.

**The Capo** · March 6, 2009, 01:11

I concur with the Maya.

The masses do not make right. Honestly this has been a screwjob the entire time. Everything has been handled incorrectly, I tried to reason with you and even allow you certain opportunities simply because of the heinous situation and even then you take advantage.

You offered a peace deal, which I tried to negotiate, and in that negotiation you reneged on everything you promised OOC. You clearly took advantage of a double move, and you are still trying to paint yourself as the "patron saint" of double moves. There were no ramifications for your double move what-so-ever. All of the rest of the players are impatient over something you yourself created, and yet I am the one who is villainized. So be it.

This needs to get fixed, right now. I have all of the rules on my side and I demand a proper assessment.

**The Capo** · March 6, 2009, 01:15

The fact of the matter is we knew you would have MGs in a few turns, we attacked you thusly and now you are attempting to cheat. This is even WORSE in a diplogame because it relies on true strategy over simply game-mechanic manipulation. This is horrendous, and however you look at it is a horrible occurance for any future diplogames.

**The Capo** · March 6, 2009, 01:23

No, there have been too many violations of the rules by the host. Even when his enemies tried to help him out by offering favorable positions he continued his ways. This is the WORST diplogame I have ever been in, and I've been in a lot more than most of you have. These acts alone ruin the entire game, and if you people don't realize it I apologize. There is NO EXCUSE for this type of larceny.

**Robert** · March 6, 2009, 02:08

My last reply to this, I'm totally done with this.

No, there have been too many violations of the rules by the host.

There has been ONE violation according to the judges: double moving my GE, which has been fixed.

The reasons for your failed invasion were the fake peace talkings I started in 1645
We were having peace talkings in 1645/1650 which I ended late 1650.
If things would have been without my double move we would've had the peace talkings in 1640/1645 and woud I still have ended these peace talkigns late in 1645 long after the 6 hours started.

1. It was my fake attempt to make peace by acting as if I wanted to hand over many cities that made you guys pause your invasion.
2. I have handed over the GE as 2 of the 3 judges told me to. Korea just decided to not take it (which he would've most probably done as well in 1640) but use it as a tool in harsh peace negotiations.

And The Capo would not have a chance with the army I had in early 1645 (before I moved) either. There were 2 machine gunners and 2 riflemen. Those Machine Gunners were your bane since you have no chance against 2 machine gunners, immune to siege weapons, with +100% culture defence among all other kinds of defence.

I have not deliberately done any ooc things to try to cheat or get exploits, etc. First you guys borderlined a betrayal which was most probably the hugest ever in diplogaming. Then you could take advantage of a legal exploit. Now you are unhappy because I fake-peace talked to you guys. (which is an invention of the both of you)

C'mon guys, wage your war and stop the crap.
I will not directly debate this issue with the both of you guys. If needed i'll answer questions of Ozzy.
I'm not interested in another fight.

**Robert** · March 6, 2009, 02:12

Maya: 2. I draft and slave my nation down to size 1 cities just to put Greece as far behind as I can before quitting the game.

You had the intention to quit the game after you had destroyed your own and my civilization? Geeeeez.

**Robert** · March 6, 2009, 02:36

You know what, Capo: move your army next to my city (except the 2nd army of course)
I'll then remove all armies from it that were putted in it after 1645 has started.
You can then attack and 'fix' things again.

This is the situation as it would've been and you would not have accepted to start peace negotiations:

Move your armies in this position and I'll do the same, so you can have your ball.

**Robert** · March 6, 2009, 05:24

Ok, since The Capo is again about to miss his turn I have saved and stopped the game.
The Capo: tell me when you are ready to play your turn. There are 50 minutes left.

We really cannot continue to hijack this game for the other 14 not-involved players.
Please accept my offer to attack my city with '1645 pre-Sparta-move' defence.

I think that I am too generous, but I just want to end all problems and continue this game.
I hope that you want to believe that I have not on purpose tried to screw things up or cheat or whatever. I am totally cooperative to work along with you where you think that I have done unfair things.

Just one question to you: did you and Maya plan the pre-war double move ahead, including discussing if it would be within the rules or not? And did the both of you then conclude that it was a legal-exploit (like Maya has said a few times AFTER all things happened). I'm curious to that.

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