Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Pitboss Japan]

To: Japan

Did you get in as Persia and accepted my peace? I would like this to be fixed as soon as possible please.

P.S for the ones who do not know what i am talking about. Japan and Persia are in war, not sure why but Japan decided to use Persia instead of its civ Japan to start the war. This automatically pushed Portugal to declare war on Persia due to a defense pact we have with Japan. The result is an unhappiness issue with my civ. If Japan did declare war with its own civ against Persia Portugal would have stayed out of this latest conflict.

Already done.And sorry for dragging you in like that but I can't afford to break our defence pact.

[Pitboss Portugal]

Thank you

[Pitboss Maya]

I really need to know what is going on with the Korean sub.

[Robert]

No news from him yet.
I'll mail him.
Since he didn't responded I guess he's not going to sub.
The Capo unfortunately didn't answer to my question to him to return to the game.

Perhaps you can ask him again, Maya?

[Pitboss Rome]

Colleagues, friends and enemies (IG of course )

Many of you know that there has been an attempt by those nations not involved in the dispute between Sparta, Korea and the Maya to bring an end to the ongoing rumbling by getting a suitable penalty implemented against Sparta for the double-move he made. This was not part of any discussion between the three involved parties, but a move by those not involved to discuss the issue affecting their game. This was kept off the boards to setting off another endless round of posting by the three people involved.

That group decided on a penalty and Ozzy asked me to put this to Sparta.

Sparta said he was would accept this penalty if the majority voted for it, but that if the majority voted against, that should be the end of the matter.

People have now had 48 hours to vote and the rest was a clear vote NOT to impose the penalty.

As I explained when I was asked to do this, I am not a mod here. I have no standing and no interest whatsoever in getting involved any further in this. I am not interested in mediating any further discussion over this. But since I was asked to carry this message to Sparta I have done, and I was content to co-ordinate this vote.

I have now done that and reported the outcome here.

I have no desire to discuss this further here. I consider this to be an end to the matter, or at least an end to my involvement. Naturally though if anyone wants to PM me about it, I will respond.

[Robert]

Wow...... I never expected that!
Thanks guys for this.

I've had a lot of dirt over me past few days, and yes, some of that was deserved.
It matters very much to me that the people I care most about, the players of this game, rule this way.

I must admit that I expected a majority to vote in favour of a penalty.
I also had the intention to put a penalty on myself for the case you guys would not.
Therefore I will now put this penalty on me nevertheless. The agreed penalty is just the same, I'll remove 8 riflemen from my army and promise not to draft for 5 turns.
We have never given penalties to people who crossed the rules in the past.
I think that I should be the first person who receives this penalty. And I also hope that I'll be the last one.

Thanks a lot. It means a lot to me.
I once again also want to apologize for my mistakes and faults.
I hope that I've learned from it.

I still wish that The Capo would return.
Eventhough I don't believe his account is spotless, it is defenitely not his fault that we are here without him! He putted a lot in this game.
I'm still willing to give some stuff up to get him back.

Capo: pls contact me if you may be interested.
If you do: please do it quickly. The game continues.

CS

[Robert]

The game has just ben paused by me.

I just went into the game to enforce the penalty on me. Then I saw something that made me pause the game.
Maya has given many Korean cities to himself while he was subbing for Korea.
I think it's up the to community to either accept or deny this, or find an alternative.

I also have sent an offer to The Capo for him to return. I think it's an interesting offer and I hope he'll agree to it.

There are still talkings with a possible sub for Korea as well.

I have paused the game to avoid problems. There's a save from before this happened and also 1 we can use to just continiue the game.

I'm going to sleep now.
I can startup the game in about 8 hours from now.
People: please respond to this and give your opinion. This opinion should just be about if Maya can or cannot do it. Don't start to discuss if other parties should get parts of Korea or something. That'll only trouble the discussion.

You should all be aware that Maya asked to do this before, but nobody responded to him!
He did not do it out of the blue!

All stay reasonable pls.

[Pitboss Maya]

Yes, I did ask about assimilating Korea into Maya. Nobody responded.

This is not to say that I plan on fighting about it if the majority does not approve.

I'll put these facts on the table however...

1. Korea is mostly farms, not towns. Korea has no nested Great People. Most cities are between size 3-7. They have no military to speak of (except units I gifted them to hold off Greece). As I mentioned before when I made a request to assimilate, taking these cities has no short term benefit to Maya, although of course there could be long term benefit.

2. Nobody is going to log in every day and perm-sub Korea. Their economy is too ravaged, their tech times too long. The infrastructure is severely lacking.

3. Even by taking all the cities but the capital and an island city, Maya score only went up by 62 points (civstats verifies this). The reasons listed above explain why.

4. I am paying the peace request from Greece on behalf of Korea. Without this, Greece takes this land. Korea cannot defend itself, and I am not throwing more of my resources into Korea's defense. If Capo was still playing I probably would.


I don't know what the alternatives would be, but I'm done playing the Korean civ in tandum to my own. I can't even post as Korea.

[-Jrabbit]

: popcorn:

[Pitboss Japan]

I do not think it is my place to say yes or no to Maya taking Korea. So I think Ill just sit back and watch the show.

[OzzyKP]

Can those island cities go to Russia, or America or someone?

But, whatev. Play on.

[St Jon]

1. I certainly see nothing amiss in the assimilation of Korea into Maya - indeed I suggested it - as they are a truly lost cause. That they even existed at all is more down to the niceties of Diplo-Gaming convention than anything else. In a normal game they would have been gobbled up Sparta/Maya centuries ago. Only someone like Capo would have even have kept up the enthusiasm to take part dynamically in a game playing Korea when I think the majority would have just quit.

2. I can't believe a replacement could ever be found for Korea. I obviously cannot see inside those cities but I can see the cities themselves. They are pitiful and so placed that nothing can really be done to improve them. Even with the tech they lack, vouchers prevent real help there anyway, it is very doubtful that they could actually have used it due to poor production.

3. Persia was salvagable and I believe the matter handled with indescent haste. No further debate from me on that one but I will always believe it to have been 100% wrong.

4. Sanctions, I think the least said about them the better as it will only open old wounds and cannot change the past. My one caveat to that is when was I ever told I had 48hrs to vote again on an issue that had already been voted on?

[St Jon]

Can those island cities go to Russia, or America or someone?

But, whatev. Play on.

Who on earth would want them? They could never be more than a drain on the economy and not worth putting any investment into as the first time the owner says the wrong word to either Maya or Sparta they disappear in a flash!

[Pitboss Rome]

Regarding Korea/Maya. For Rome IG a stronger Maya is not a good thing, but even so I agree that Maya should absorb Korea.

There is an island Korea and I share, right at the south of the world - the Korean city there (very weak and undeveloped) would fit well with Rome.

Also there is a Korean city (or two even) on New Portugal - I think that these would go well with Russia and might give them some compensation for the fact that they didn't get the land from Piercia that they should have done.

[Pitboss Rome]

CS Please Read
I tried to log on this morning, when there was about an hour left on the clock to play my turn. But of course it has been paused to ensure the Maya/Korea issue is resolved smoothly. I'm all in favour of that. However, I would be unhappy if the timer is then restarted when I can't play and therefore I lose my turn. Can we sort this so that I don't miss my turn?

Of course, thinking about it you didn't stop it just with on hour on the clock (which was when i came on) but much earlier, so its less of an issue. I could manage to play about 8pm GMT i.e. 12 hours from teh date of this post. I hope the restart can be done so that is still in my turn.