Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Robert]

Awesome.
I'll also give Japan access to Piercia in the same way. (but then a pause is not neede of course, this pause is only used b/c there's only 1 hour left for Korea)

[OzzyKP]

Great to see Maya keep playing.

Take out your OOC anger & frustration on Greece's cities in game.

[Pitboss Persia]

I have given my password to Japan. Have fun.

[Pitboss Portugal]

It would be nice if Japan role plays this move by Piercia and writes some stories.

[Pitboss Japan]

I do have a story lined up but will take time till I post it.

[Pitboss Natives]

Japan, I have responded to your PM.

CyberShy - Hold for one moment please - the discussions concerning the Piercian lands are still being discussed between Japan and the Wyandot.

CyberShy, I even sent you a PM yesterday, concerning this...

[Pitboss Japan]

I agree but I really don't want to post the agreement till after I post my story Which I'm hoping to have written by Sunday morning at the latest.

[Robert]

Japan, I have responded to your PM.

CyberShy - Hold for one moment please - the discussions concerning the Piercian lands are still being discussed between Japan and the Wyandot.

CyberShy, I even sent you a PM yesterday, concerning this...

I got the idea that you guys figured it out.
Wyandots would receive those cities they requested.

This is not a matter of in-game negotiations, I think, Japan. It's an OOC split up. Just give up the cities and make up the story after you've done it.

Regarding the vouchers / techs, what do we do?
If we give them all the Japan, that's unfair. There are more backwards civs.
Any ideas?

[Pitboss Rome]

Regarding the vouchers / techs, what do we do?

Given that the Piercian player is leaving (which is sad, but a reality) I am all in favour of using Piercia to strengthen other nations - that way the game is helped by giving us more equal countries. (Although IG you could argue that it would be better for Rome to keep a small inactive Piercia on its borders, rather than building up the strength of its western neighbour, and throwing the Japenese into the mix.)

I don't think we should fiddle with tech and vouchers though. There is no IG reason to - there is no need. (As opposed to dealing with the cities where there is a pressing need). So all we would be doing is taking OOC decisions to give tech and vouchers to one or two nations. But why them and not others? By this allocation of Piercian land certain of the small countries are getting a leg up, when other small countries (those on the Khmer continent) are not. I think that is just about OK (and after all those on the Khmer continent benefited from the demise of the Inca). But I don't see any justification for going further and giving a tech leg up to just these one or two countries.

So:

• cities need to go somewhere (otherwise Rome will gobble them), so lets allocate
• there is no need to fiddle with tech and vouchers, so don't
• when the dust settles, in twenty turns, if folks want to lets look at tech issues, but lets look at them for all small countries (and I would still favour the suggestion of making techs from a certain point back in the tech tree tradable without vouchers).

[Pitboss Japan]

the cities are already split up with the exeption of the capital which I will take soon as the last of the persian units gets withing my borders which, will be in 5 turns. so to repeat, natives got their two cities and I will finish the traspher in 5 turns. as for the vouchers I wanted them but if i can't have then then I think america should get them. America is last and has none left so they would be the best choice. also we have yet to decide who will get my city on new sparta so can we please decide soon pref sometime before the next turn.

[St Jon]

OOC.

I think the effective gifting of Persia to Japan is without any kind of justice. Why should Japan, not the weakest nation in the game, get size 20+ cities for no effort? Why should this just be accepted as a quickie expedient? I studied Persia on my last turn and it is anything but hopeless or helpless. OK, the tech is very poor but the land is rich and cities great.

I can certainly see the justice in the Wyandot claim that in a destroyed and split Persia they need be returned their cities, I admit I have now knowledge if they were gifts or spoils of war which does make a difference, but what right has Japan to just say "OK, just give them to me I'm weak!"? These cities are not just remote outposts on New Sparta they are very valuable and contain useful Wonders.

As for the gifting of the Persian army, alright not exactly a mighty force, is likewise wholly wrong. If Persia is to die then let Rome, Wyandot and Japan fight over the corpse but at least give it to the AI for some resistance.

If it is to be split amicably then America and Viking must get something. I cannot recall the third last nation, it's not Japan, must also get their share.

An Opinion,
FF

[OzzyKP]

The other bottom civ is the Funglish. I agree that Japan shouldn't take all the spoils themselves.

Though this is all happening very quick, I think we need to make more of an effort to keep the Persian player in the game. This isn't like Inca who never posted, but Persia has been a very big and important part of this game.

[Pitboss Japan]

I have been the bottom civ since I started playing so I don't know why you have such a problem with me taking persia and improving my civ. As for the natives, we struck a deal where they got what they wanted and I got what I wanted. I know you only wanted to see a fight maybe even try to get some cities yourself but what is done is done.

What we need to do now is split the remaining 4 vouchers between the other smaller nations and decide who gets my city on new sparta. I also have two cities on new portugal too that I am willing to give. So if we don't decide who gets them before next turn i will just give them to the bottom 3.

[Pitboss Japan]

The other bottom civ is the Funglish. I agree that Japan shouldn't take all the spoils themselves.

Though this is all happening very quick, I think we need to make more of an effort to keep the Persian player in the game. This isn't like Inca who never posted, but Persia has been a very big and important part of this game.

He already made it very clear he was done. So lets just move on with the game.

[St Jon]

I am sorry but I think is all too hasty. Persia is a viable Civ and, potentially, a meaningful one. Japan is not bottom of the pile and it would be no less just to give the cities and armies to Portugal and Khmer!

How many centuries does it take to grow cities of that size? Why should Japan suddenly appear on a different continent where, unbound by Pax Romana, Rome could, and I think probably should, just capture them without any real effort.

We have another dangerous situation of a super-power emerging from OOC politics. If I were Rome I would have those cities in two shakes of a puppy dog's tail without any claim of over-kill on a weaker Civ being possible to make.

Please for the sake of game balance get Persia to continue or get a sub for her. I had not even bothered to look at Persia before, thinking of it as nothing, but it has a lot of potential as a Civ on it's own and should be given the chance. Persia under Democracy and 4 vouchers to spend could become a lot more powerful than she is very quickly.

Regardless, I don't believe you can just gift size 20+ cities with wonders to anyone just because they happen to ask first. If no sub then AI, let the Romans and Wyandots carve it up, and forget the vouchers ever existed.