Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [OOC Chat Thread]

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings


what is even less diplo is a war that no one posts about

Tell me do you realy beleive an orchestrated war , with storys is realy less dipl othan a war with only one post.

I'm just giving you a hard time over your repeated calls for diplo-purity. I don't really have an opinion about the matter.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Pinchak


Ok, enough.

I turned the other cheek to your false recollection of the facts before in order to honor the anon agreement of HOTW12 (something you have yet to honor I might add).

Lets get some things straight about the American/Carpathian wars in HOTW12.

First off, the first war was not an "invasion". Carpathia killed a settler which was warned in advance to stay out of a neutral area. It was later learned that the settler was to be a gift for Mali. THERE WAS NEVER ANY INVASION HOWEVER. Although it might serve to paint your victory all the more glorious by calling it an invasion, this is simply untrue.

Secondly, the first war was Carpathia verses Mali, America, and the Incas (who were a game leading powerhouse at the time). Officially it was a war against Mali and America, but later it came out in the wash that Inca gifted many troops to America.

Thirdly, Carpathia probably had a smaller army at the time then America when taking number of cities into consideration. Bottom line is that much of my army was archers and city defenders. Looking only at troops available for offensive maneuvers, Carpathia and America were probably evenly matched. This is of course not counting Mali's forces or the troops gifted to America by the Inca.

Fourthly, Carpathia probably was ahead in tech only by a tech or two. Engineering was the only military tech I can think of.

So get off your high horse about "superior tactics". It was not David verses Goliath, more like David verses David and a bunch of his friends.

I'll also mention that you TOOK MY CAPITAL in that first war, after taking a few other cities including my holy city.

Hmmmm, lets see what the Diplogame Guide that YOU wrote Ozzy has to say about that...



Hmmmm, "unless you intend to give them back in exchange for reparations". This must explain why you cried, begged, and pleaded when the community at large reprimanded you FOR SELECTIVELY APPLYING YOUR OWN RULES TO YOURSELF.

For the record, I had to fight to get my capital back (so much for your superior tactics). It was not negotiated back. My holy city (which also had hanging gardens) was only forked over after Mongolia threatened to hand your ass to you. Don't even try to say that you were willing to barter these things back as your "guide" <---(pffft, what a joke) specifies.

Players of Beyond the Pit, disregard all this **** about not being able to reign down destruction for the sake of fun play. It is nothing but an insurance policy for those who interprete the "rules". The only repercussions you may face SHOULD apply in game only based on how this has been handled in the past.

On top of all this though, how ironic that during this recent discussion in this thread about OOC posting that the American/Carpathian war in HOTW12 gets brought up. You POSTED OOC TO HIGH HEAVEN in hopes of holding on to your 3 vs. 1 gains. It was terrible. You took OOC posting to a whole new level. I NEVER want to see you give anyone grief about OOC after the **** you pulled in that game.

But of course, all of this follows the usual Ozzy "the rules don't apply to me" mentality. Or rather the, "how can I be breaking/bending rules when I make them?" mentality.

I know people like you in real life. Weaselly, hypocritical, underhanded, smug people. Fortunately, I also know how to deal with them.

Wow Pin. You are harboring some serious animosity here. I am both amused by it and appalled at the same time. You really just can't accept this, can you? Even 6 months later.

I'll replay some facts of the situation for you. I came into the game as a sub and quickly found myself at war with the Mali and in last place. I wasn't able to run the whole war with Mali cause Capo came back. But I learned that while Mali and America were duking it out, you invaded the Mali and nabbed a city. Meanwhile you were seriously encroaching on America's lands and just moved your capitol to border core American territory.

After you and Mali settled your war you not only kept the city you took from Mali, but you also laid claim to an additional city spot that used to have a Mali city on it which was destroyed in the war. You then issued your threat that you'd destroy any settler you saw near that city site. So basically you just nabbed two cities (effectively) by force from a smaller power while they were embroiled in another war.

Nothing against the rules about that, but you should be able to understand how your hostile behavior made your own bed. I settled the war with the Mali and agreed to give them a settler (and other payment) for the city I took from them. The settler wasn't at all close to the Gao site, but you destroyed it anyways and declared war on me. You also sent an ax to New York to pillage my land and... I think some units by Baltimore too, I don't remember.

Add to that the bad trade deals you pushed on America in the past (as I was told by Capo) aggressive settling on our borders, and aggressive, boastful posts in the story thread. You play the victim now but you were clearly looking for a fight. And were reckless with who and how you fought.

You say you had maybe a one tech lead. I suspect it is more than that, but even so, engineering is a pretty important tech, especially since it gave you your UU. You also had a production advantage, shrine income, two wonders, and other benefits on your side.

I was determined to stop you from pushing around and grabbing land from all your neighbors. Mali too wanted to stop your aggressive pushes into their territory. We were two of the bottom three civs in the game at that point.

You are right that you didn't send a large army to attack me, but you did send a large army to attack the Mali. Two cities weren't enough for you apparently. You neglected to mention that in your speech there. So yes, the Inca gave me some troops, and the Mali some too I believe.

We were the underdogs and we used our diplo skills to our advantage and were able to get some support out of pity from a stronger neighbor. A neighbor who was also concerned about your rise in power and aggressive behavior I imagine. You learned to play that card effectively later in the game. Again, nothing wrong with your being aggressive, but you can't pretend to be surprised by the consequences.

After my borders were safe however, the Inca asked for their units back and I returned them. They didn't factor much in my offensive war against you later. You make much of the fact it was "three against one" but while the Incan troops were very important early on, I think you overestimate their overall impact.

As for taking your capital you are clearly self-delusional or uninformed on several points (a consistent theme I might add). You were sending a large stack into Mali land. I wasn't entirely sure whether you intended to attack a Mali city or try to hit me from behind. Either way, I decided the best way to protect us both would be to go on the offensive. Your capitol was right on my border and poorly defended. It is worth noting that the city wasn't your original capitol anyhow. You had moved your capitol there what, 20 turns earlier? It was hardly your oldest or most important city. In fact you had about 5 cities of equal or greater population at the time. So I hardly think the town is as important as you make it out to be. It could even be seen as a sleaze move to try and take advantage of diplo codes of conduct to put your capitol on the front lines in hopes it wouldn't be taken.

My grand strategy and motive was to take your capitol so I could have a big bargaining chip to end the war, get you to pull back your stack from the Mali, and possibly be able to trade it for one of your small cities in the south. You try to play the victim, but after all your aggressive moves I was legitimately afraid of what big, advanced army you had in wait for me. I had no way of knowing that you "weren't very serious" about the war. You invaded and took cities from the Mali, it looked every bit that you intended to do the same to me.

I didn't intend to let you.

Taking your capitol was a strategic decision to get a big bargaining chip to protect myself and Mali, but also to cause you to question the wisdom of picking a fight with me. To send a message that I wasn't going to go quietly. Ask anyone I spoke with about the game, I intended that move would get you to the negotiating table. I never for an instant intended on keeping the city.

You are ridiculously off-base accusing me of not wanting to negotiate for its return. I spent that whole fricken session trying again and again and again to get you to talk or communicate in some way. You stone-walled me the whole time. Your fragile ego was so wounded that you refused to negotiate, refused to talk, refused to communicate. You just stewed and fumed. Apparently you still haven't resolved things in your head yet since you are still harboring such hostility over it.

I guess it is your call whether you believe me or not, but everyone in that game will attest to my multiple attempts to negotiate a peace. The very core of diplogaming. Negotiation. You through that out the window because of your bruised ego and refused not only to negotiate but speak at all.

It had every appearance that you were just going to keep going after me. Maybe you had some killer stack that would be ready in 3 turns and didn't want to negotiate before you had a chance to use it. So I decided to press my advantage while I had it, because I didn't have much confidence it would last. Actually one of the reasons I pushed to negotiate so soon is because I was afraid of my long term chances in the war. You seemed so much more powerful than me and I wanted to make a bold move early to get you to back down.

You didn't. You kept pushing forward with the war.

I had no choice but to do the same. My only advantage, as far as I saw it, with less production capacity, fewer troops, and less technology (however you try to downplay it, these are still the facts) was to capture some "diplo-capitol" to trade with later. I wasn't going to just disarm and wait for you to counter-attack, I had to keep pushing my advantage while I had it. I know that angered some others in the game, but unilaterally disarming in the middle of a war with a hostile, angry, and superior foe isn't so wise in my book.

The more you refused to negotiate, the more entrenched the war became, the more victories I had, and the more I expected to get out of the peace. That seems reasonable, no? If you negotiated when I first asked for it, things would have been MUCH better for you.

Face it, you were betrayed by your pride, not by any cheating or bending of diplo-rules by yours truly.

As for some other facts you got wrong, you said I took your capitol after your holy city and many others. I took your new capitol first (if it makes any difference) and waited a very long time before moving on your holy city. I first considered it off limits and could have taken it earlier if I wanted. Also, your holy city didn't have Hanging Gardens, that was your other city, to the east. But again, your obstinance in the face of defeat was what sealed your fate. I took it as another bargaining chip to try and get you to negotiate.

But I guess you can go ahead and believe whatever reality you want to believe in. I think the facts speak for themselves.

[The Capo]

I don't think I ever "came back" into the game. I remember being offered the slot back, but I declined it.

[Heraclitus]

Actually this reminds me HOTW12 is still unfinished. The remaining players have agreed to switch it to pitboss, but we need a few permanent subs.


And most of all, we need a host.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pitboss Rome


Precisely there is a lot of strategy in Civ4. Though I would say that 100 vs. 10 is a bit BS, maybe 100 vs. 50.


This and a comment from him that horseback is a good tech because the AI likes it in trade... makes me wonder... Raz just how new to civ4 are you?

umm very new told every one at start of game. never played beyond settler level because oh occasianly stasrt a cheiften game but never finsih them

This is my first ever MP game. Not played MP since civ 2

Isnt DIPLO wonderful
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You really dont need to know how to play the game to enjoy it.

And that is the TRUE DIPLO

Not being the best not playing to win.

I wouldnt have a clue how to win. The game too full of micromanagment stuff. at least in Pitboss you get bored enough to check every city every turn , would never even look inside a city in my usual game, let the governor choose the work places.

Oh the sacriledge hey..

A newbie !!!!

[Pitboss Rome]

No, if you are really as new to the game as you say you are, then you are doing good.


And yes Diplo is great.

[Robert]

Oh micromanagement...... oh micromanagement.....
Have we ever micromanaged our turns that much? I surely haven't 8)

[Pitboss Vikings]

not sure of how it is in Civ4 cyber but i up trying to learn Civ2 when it was explained to me all the ways of micromanaging your citys. Making sure the citizens were moved at just the right time to ensure the most profitable way of making shields or food etc.

If this wasnt Pitboss i would never open a city window to view it insode.

Never cared what they making or anything like that, never made specialists .



I only play to enjoy the community stuff.

When i talk of DIPLO and it going back to the old way, i mean more stroys , i dont care how many people get back stabbed, armies walked over etc etc, as long as there is a story.

Push everything to the limit but post about it.

DIPLO is to me, all about the stories, befoe dipl ocame there were no story threads, just ladders.

[Pitboss Rome]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
Making sure the citizens were moved at just the right time to ensure the most profitable way of making shields or food etc.

In civ4 there is production & research overflow, this removes the need for much of the micro management.


I surley don't check every city each turn, in fact there are probably cities I've left to their own for several weeks.



PS: Please post that you have given me a voucher for the tech in the tech thread.

[Pitboss Vikings]

will have to write to you in that strang epalce called PMs.

[Pitboss Japan]

what civs need subs in HOTW12????

[OzzyKP]

Russia & Ottomans I believe.

[Pitboss Japan]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Russia & Ottomans I believe.

who is bigger?

[OzzyKP]

I think Russia, but don't quote me on that. They are close as best I can remember.

[Pinchak]

You are harboring some serious animosity here. I am both amused by it and appalled at the same time. You really just can't accept this, can you? Even 6 months later.

I accepted it 6 months ago. You are the one who keeps bringing it up like it was the biggest upset in the history of diplogaming.

I'm not bothered by the war itself. I'll admit I bit off more then I could chew taking on two (three) nations at once. Even if I had been victorious however real life would have caused me to drop out like I did.

What has me pissed is that you keep throwing it in my face, and skewing the facts every time.

Truth of the matter was that I was the one who was outnumbered. Anyway you spin it, that was the case. So shove all your stories of victory against insurmountable odds up your self righteous a$$.

But stroking your own ego is what you do best. Just like when Greece started posting photoshoped ingame images and everyone was praising him. You just HAD to remind everyone that you did it first by reposting yours from another game.

Typical.

Your such a schmuck.