Possible Diplogame Mod

[The Capo]

I was kinda thinking of doing that, but I have an idea that is pretty much what your idea was. I was thinking of trying to make them a series of projects you have to build, so you would need the tech then project then the SS part. That way you can't rush build any of them. I could still add hammers and all that too. See the thing about it is I see both sides of the issue. I am TOTALLY against taking the Space Race out, to me that is a huge disservice. In fact to me a domination victory is unrealistic as I feel it is too easy, if you consider real life it would be VERY hard to actually do that and maintain your position or even gain a good enough position to call it domination. But I know its a game and I am digressing here. I don't remember if everyone can build projects, but if that is the case that is probably the direction I will go in. I won't add techs though, because I want to make sure everyone likes the mod for diplogames and won't complain about balance. The reason the space race has to be in is because it doesn't represent going to the moon, it represents colonizing another planet (which I am sure everyone is aware of) and that is something that we haven't accomplished in real life and something that we hope to one day do. When/if it ever happens it will be an amazing achievement, and would probably only occur with multiple nations working together on it. But alas we are playing a game where the limit is 18 so realism cant' always occur.

But if each country can build the projects necessary I will make a project for each SS part instead of just the tech. So some of the tech values will go up, some of the hammers will go up, and then there will be a time consuming project thrown in the middle. I hope this somehow helps the issue. If you think there needs to be more than that let me know.

Also I couldn't help myself, I just threw these four gentlemen in the game. From top-left clockwise again; Pachacuti of the Inca, Harald Hardrada of the Vikings, Haile Selassie of Ethiopia and then Hirohito of Japan. The next one should have Franco of Spain, Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, Harun al-Rashid of the Arabs, 18 Rabbit of the Maya, Itzcoatl of the Aztecs, and then I have Sumeria, Babylon and Zulu left over and I don't know what to do about this. I was thinking of putting Nelson Mandela as the leader of the Zulu but this really isn't historically/tribally accurate although his tribe is also a Bantu tribe (so are the Zulus) and I like Nelson Mandela so we'll see. Anyway here are the other guys.

[Pitboss Korea]

Alright here is the next set of leaderheads. The only two countries that don't have two leaders left are Sumeria and Babylon. There are leaderheads out there I can get but they aren't available quite yet. Again the idea was to give more leaders to civs so they may get picked more and those are two of the civs that are picked the least, so I am going to try and get that done soon. But here are the new people for the one leader civs.

As usual, top left clockwise; Harun al-Rashid of Arabia, 18 Rabbit of the Maya, Franco of Spain, Mangothusu of the Zulu (although I am probably going to change him to Mandela), Itzcoatl of the Aztecs, and Wilhelmina of the Netherlands.

[The Capo]

Alright, now that all of that is done its time for the fun part. I picked their memory and reactions and all that based on pre-existing leaders. So for instance I think I made Pol Pot's attitudes after Stalin's. So some of the favorite civics are not going to be final, in fact none of this is final. But the idea was to get leaders with different traits for civs with only one leader. So here are the civs, their old traits and the new traits and I added favorite civic in there so I can get suggestions on that. Keep in mind this is NOT final at all and the point is to get you guys to tell me what I should change. I noticed I didnt' have a lot of philosophical in there, or if you think I need more or less of a trait let me know, but here goes.

EDIT: Sorry this chart looks like ****, but here you go anyway.

COUNTRY OLD TRAITS NEW TRAITS CIVIC
_____________________________________________
Arabia Spiritual/Protective Org/Imperial. Org Relig
Aztecs Aggressive/Spirit Industr/Imp. Heredit.
Byzant Spirit/Imp Agg/Imp Police St
Carth Finan/Charis Creat/Financ Heredit.
Dutch Creat/Financial Creative/Prot Fr Speech
Ehtiop Creat/Organ Philo/Spiritual Pacif
HRE Prot/Imper Spirit/Organ Rep?
Inca Ind/Financ Expans/Create Buraeu
Japan Aggro/Protect Industr/Imperial Vassal
Khmer Expan/Create Aggres/Charism St Prop
Korea Financ/Protect Aggres/Organize Pol State
Mali Spirit/Finance Finance/Organ Fr Mrkt
Maya Expan/Financ Aggro/Organize Buraeu
Native Philo/Protect Aggro/Charis Vassal?
Port. Expans/Imp Finance/Organ Hered Rule
Spain Spiritual/Expan Charis/Protect Ntn'hood
Vik. Aggro/Finan Expans/Charis Hereditry
Zulu Aggro/Expan Creat/Protect Univ Suff

For the traits I just want to make them different, if you see anything I should change let me know. If there is a question mark it means I must have forgot to change it. If you want to know the leaders here they are real quick

Arabs - Harun al-Rashid
Aztecs - Itzcoatl
Byzantines - Basil II
Carthage - Dido
Dutch - Wilhelmina
Ethiopia - Haile Selassie
HRE - Charles V
Inca - Pachacuti
Japan - Hirohito
Khmer - Pol Pot
Korea - Kimg Jong-il
Mali - Sundiata Keita
Maya - 18 Rabbit (good luck finding info on him)
Natie - Tecumseh
Portugese - Prince Henry the Navigator
Spain - Franco
Vikings - Harald Hardrada
Zulus - Mangosuthu (Current King of the Zulus, I'm probably going to change him to Nelson Mandela though, who isn't a Zulu but a Bantu, which is related to the Zulus and he did a lot for South African blacks and thus the Zulu people)

So let me know in this thread what you think I should do with these. I know I didn't do a great job picking them but it was very tedious putting all of these leaders in and your mind eventually goes numb...

[MMC]

My Space Race idea didn't involve any new techs, it simply split the Apollo Program out into several stages that would all be required. So here's a refinement of my idea:

• First the player (or a group of players - these would all be team wonders so only one of each per team, but still allow for more than one of each wonder) builds a starting space wonder (ie NASA), which allows them to build SS Engines and SS Fuel Tanks (assuming they already have the required techs).
• Then the player builds a few SS Engines and SS Fuel Tanks as requirements for the next wonder, the ISS (or Mir, or something else). The ISS should be disabled unless the team has some SS Engines and SS Fuel Tanks built in order to launch the necessary components into space.
• The ISS would unlock SS Command Modules, and SS Life Support, which would be needed in order to work on the Apollo Mission. (I know I'm slightly out of order historically, but in RL, we've actually taken a logical step back with the ISS. Orbit -> Moon makes more sense than Moon -> Orbit)
• The Apollo mission would unlock the final components, and the rest of the Space Race would continue one as it currently does in the game.

Also, use the 'code' option (the # button above the reply box) to monospace your text and make tables like Cyber does. Either that, or use proper HTML tables (which are easy).

[Pitboss Korea]

Nobody said anything about new techs.

[MMC]

You did in post #91 at the top of this page.

[Pitboss Korea]

Do you mean this part?

Originally posted by The Capo
I was kinda thinking of doing that, but I have an idea that is pretty much what your idea was. I was thinking of trying to make them a series of projects you have to build, so you would need the tech then project then the SS part. That way you can't rush build any of them. I could still add hammers and all that too. See the thing about it is I see both sides of the issue. I am TOTALLY against taking the Space Race out, to me that is a huge disservice. In fact to me a domination victory is unrealistic as I feel it is too easy, if you consider real life it would be VERY hard to actually do that and maintain your position or even gain a good enough position to call it domination. But I know its a game and I am digressing here. I don't remember if everyone can build projects, but if that is the case that is probably the direction I will go in. I won't add techs though, because I want to make sure everyone likes the mod for diplogames and won't complain about balance. The reason the space race has to be in is because it doesn't represent going to the moon, it represents colonizing another planet (which I am sure everyone is aware of) and that is something that we haven't accomplished in real life and something that we hope to one day do. When/if it ever happens it will be an amazing achievement, and would probably only occur with multiple nations working together on it. But alas we are playing a game where the limit is 18 so realism cant' always occur.

But if each country can build the projects necessary I will make a project for each SS part instead of just the tech. So some of the tech values will go up, some of the hammers will go up, and then there will be a time consuming project thrown in the middle. I hope this somehow helps the issue. If you think there needs to be more than that let me know.

Also I couldn't help myself, I just threw these four gentlemen in the game. From top-left clockwise again; Pachacuti of the Inca, Harald Hardrada of the Vikings, Haile Selassie of Ethiopia and then Hirohito of Japan. The next one should have Franco of Spain, Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, Harun al-Rashid of the Arabs, 18 Rabbit of the Maya, Itzcoatl of the Aztecs, and then I have Sumeria, Babylon and Zulu left over and I don't know what to do about this. I was thinking of putting Nelson Mandela as the leader of the Zulu but this really isn't historically/tribally accurate although his tribe is also a Bantu tribe (so are the Zulus) and I like Nelson Mandela so we'll see. Anyway here are the other guys.

Because it looks like I said I would not be adding techs, at least to me that's what it looks like.

[Pitboss Korea]

You may also be operating under this assumption based on another post where i said the chain would be

Tech->Project->Spaceship part

But what I meant was the tech that allows the space ship part would now allow the project that allows the space ship part.

But I am not really knowlegable about science so I would need help determining what to call these projects. Sorry if the post before this was snarky.

[MMC]

Ahh... no problem. In fact, check your normal (Capo) PM box.

If you notice, my idea was
Tech + Project -> SS Part

So you wouldn't have a Project for each SS Part, but each Project would enable maybe two or three SS Parts. The original techs would still be required. It would just be less work in thinking up suitable Projects. In fact, I have already mention 3 possibles:
NASA, ISS, and a downgraded Apollo Mission

[Pitboss Korea]

Can each civ build a project or are they like world wonders? I don't notice because I always build them all when I play.

[MMC]

Projects vs Wonders, etc. is all explained here

Long story short: Team Projects may be built by each team (think Permanant Alliances - the game mechanic, not the supposed bane of diplogaming). Like World Wonders, only one can be built per team, but like National Wonders, more than one can exist in the world.

Example:
6 Civs in a game, split into 2 teams. Civ 5 builds the Apollo Program. Civ 5's allies (Civ 4 and Civ 6) can now all build SS parts, however the other team (Civs 1-3) still need to build their own Apollo Program.

I would recommend leaving this mechanic in place, and including any extra wonders as Team Projects (the ISS wouldn't be the ISS if only one civ built it...)

[The Capo]

Well sinice this is for diplogames how would we work in the team aspect of it? Can we make individual civs be considered teams? Or can we allow teams to be FORMED during the game and thus BROKEN during the game, I mean we can't set up teams in advance because that removes the point of the diplomacy.

[MMC]

Individual civs count as seperate teams by default. And there is a game mechanic for making teams within the game (it's the next step up from Defensive Pacts). I'm not entirely sure it they can be broken once theiy've been made, although I don't see why not.

[OzzyKP]

Yea, permanent alliances would count as a team. However I don't think they can be broken (correct me if I'm wrong) so they aren't entirely suitable for diplogames.

[Heraclitus]

Would it be possible to mod permanent alliances for them to be a bit less permanent?