Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread]

[Pinchak]

You forgot to mention fast workers.

Although on epic speed their advantage is diminished somewhat.

[Pitboss Japan]

all this talk means nothing. like i said in the beginning Japan will end up on top at the end. i don't really care about winning but at the same time i will do what i must to insure that Japan rules over all he world.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by deity
Just a small point to ozzy about vets not picking Fin or Ind civs:

I think picking Asoka is just as bad. And I know I might risk starting endless debate but ozzy made such a thing of this.

Firstly getting pre-cursors to a certain early religion is poor for a vet when there are so many new players in this game. It would be best that no vets get a religion. It's financial power is extreme.

Secondly, Organised is vey strong as a Fin substitute.

Of course the combinations of what vets should or should not get might become endless but ozzy made such a big deal out of Fin/Ind and I believe this is a thoroughly simplistic solution. In fact if I were cynical I might say that getting the other vets to not pick Fin/Ind was an advantage to Asoka.

The Metalheads are not near the top at the moment but game score at this stage is meaningless...

oops, adding a smiley - not too heavy here

it was deity in the organisation thread that first suggested no Vets take the FIN and IND traits.

Just as a reminder folks not to stir ..

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Naw, it'll probably just mean he'll be wiped out by barbarians.

yes that is my fear at present...

Anyone want to buy some land got lots going cheap !!!!

[Pitboss Natives]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
yes that is my fear at present...

Anyone want to buy some land got lots going cheap !!!!

Hmmm, the Wyandot Tribe feel that they have a claim on a chuck of the land so far....it you are going to sell it, the Wyandot Nation demands their proper cut!

We were sold out before in a past life - We will be DAMNED if we are sold out again!

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
it was deity in the organisation thread that first suggested no Vets take the FIN and IND traits.

Just as a reminder folks not to stir ..

Sure, I posted, no one replied, then changes were made after the civ choices..

But that's not the point. I think for future games we should flesh out a bit of a more rational handicap system for better players.

I think vets should not have Fin, Ind, Org nor any religion pre-cursors.

Just a suggestion for future discussion.

[Pitboss Rome]

This opens the can of worms of who is a veteran player.

I think everyone can agree Toni, deity and OzzyKP are. But there are other people who are pretty close to them.

[deity]

Yeah, I think lz is a vet/pro and cyber too. Plus you might find a few in this game.

Raz is a vet but not a pro

[Robert]

I don't consider fin or org to be better traits then other traits. Certainly not for a pro. A real pro can benefit from every trait. Only weak players may have some benefits from playing fin or org.

I don't consider an early religion a pro either.

[Pitboss Russia]

@ Pinchak.

The mountains? I don't care about the mountains. They're full of resources, but uninhabitable. What I am upset about is that Rome has a river-paradise that blows my mind, while I have a resource-deprived peninsula, with hardly any decent city sites. I have flat land with no production potential, one minor river, and practically no resources. My tech is lagging because the starting site has no $ production whatsoever.

My own start is overcomeable, but I'll just announce right now, that Rome is going to be so filthy rich and powerful, that I've already written off any chance of ever competing with them. The starting positions are that unbalanced.

I know the game. I will handle myself well, but with the relative starts there is no real contest, short term or long.

That is my complaint.

[Robert]

The Rome starting position is defenitely the best of the game. But I think that Rome is not the best player in the field and is not totally aware of the real richness of his position, thus it'll be ok in the end anyway

But Rome was defenitely one of the concerns I had when reviewing the map.

Oh well, if all Rome's neighbours try to ballance things out, it can be ok.

[Pinchak]

Well, in my defense I will say the following...

Not all starting spots were created equal. I tried to balance them out, but pressure from the community to just get the map done so we could start was strong. I begged for one more day to further balance things, but was denied.

However, you saying that the mountains are resource full and at the same time saying that you have no production are contradictory statements. Sure you can't expect to build a city in the middle of them, but having fat crosses that include some of the mountains would yield production no doubt.

All that aside, remember that this is a diplogame, and that you should perhaps use your most powerful weapon, influencing your neighbors.

I'm not suggesting anything in specific, but think about it. Portugal has already gone to war with Rome, and Rome's might is a concern to several other civs. That is all I am going to say so that I am not accused of influencing the game OOC.

One other thing I will say is that the jungle starts are arguably the worst in the game. Reflecting back on it, I probably should have made these less harsh. But by no means would I consider Russia's start the worst.

*waits for complaint posts from jungle civs*

[Heraclitus]

Well balancing starting sites is hell, I think we should wait to see modern resources before bashing Pinchak.

[Pitboss Rome]

Originally posted by Pitboss Russia
@ Pinchak.

The mountains? I don't care about the mountains. They're full of resources, but uninhabitable. What I am upset about is that Rome has a river-paradise that blows my mind, while I have a resource-deprived peninsula, with hardly any decent city sites. I have flat land with no production potential, one minor river, and practically no resources. My tech is lagging because the starting site has no $ production whatsoever.

My own start is overcomeable, but I'll just announce right now, that Rome is going to be so filthy rich and powerful, that I've already written off any chance of ever competing with them. The starting positions are that unbalanced.

I know the game. I will handle myself well, but with the relative starts there is no real contest, short term or long.

That is my complaint.

Can someone please explain how my land is paradise? And how I can become filthy rich and powerfull with it? I would really really want to know.

All I see is a river start a few plots of grassland westward and northward (that is settled by Portugal) and a jungle expanse that will need an army of workers to clear.

Also my northern neighbour is Portugal who is already running away with the score.

[Robert]

The fact that you don't mention the most important part of your empire shows your ignorance, Rome :P

As far as I can tell Pinchak's map is ballanced pretty well.
Indeed with Rome as the possible exception, but fortunately he doesn't know
(maybe one of your neighbours want to help you, ie. Russia. He may want to sell his knowledge to you, I'm not going to intervene in that)

(I've subbed for Rome, so I know his position very well)