Return Of The King To Civ Gaming

[Dulaak]

Ok, let's be honest, maybe I am a joke. I'll keep that option open to be answered by others who actually know me. (no, that's not you )

But it's weird that you first start about how I play not at the highest levels

Think again about what I said, and keep doing it until you realize why you proved my point. Keyword there is highest levels. Think about how you interpreted that and why it is that you have proved beyond a doubt what you are.

[Robert]

with 'highest levels' the Emperor, Immortal and Deity levels of civ4 are meant, mostly.
Since you used 'levels' you must at least mean both Immortal and Deity.

I do play Immortal (with Warlords)

Explain me why I misinterpret you, and why that is my fault?

Also explain to me why you fail to respond to the rest of my posts, and in particular the parts that address the 1vs1 mp game issue.

[Dulaak]

with 'highest levels' the Emperor, Immortal and Deity levels of civ4 are meant, mostly.
Since you used 'levels' you must at least mean both Immortal and Deity.

Let me explain it to you. When I said highest levels, any decent MP player would have automatically assumed I meant high level MP games. You, on the other hand, thought I meant SP AI levels. There is no good MP player on the face of the planet who thinks beating a dumb AI is an accomplishment or sign of skill. You also fail to realize the game level used in all MP games is noble. Get it now? Good. Lets go ahead and accept now what we are, shall we?

Also explain to me why you fail to respond to the rest of my posts, and in particular the parts that address the 1vs1 mp game issue.

Because as I've already explained, my main issues with the game are universal and apply to all styles of MP. If you knew dick about what you were talking about you'd realize how many very long posts, and detailed posts, I have made about the problems with the game and how to fix them. See, you're the problem with Civ4. Firaxis listens to people like you. You don't know ****, yet you feel you should give your opinion because you beat the god damn game on Immortal. This is why Civilization 5 probably won't even have MP.

[Toni]

Oh my CS, good luck arguing with the hollow concrete wall

[Robert]

Thanks, Toni

any decent MP player would have automatically assumed I meant high level MP games.

There are no MP levels, everything is noble.
The term 'levels' is always used for the AI levels.

There is no good MP player on the face of the planet who thinks beating a dumb AI is an accomplishment or sign of skill.

You are really hillarious.
Did you ever beat the AI above Emperor level in BtS on a huge map 10+ player game?

You also fail to realize the game level used in all MP games is noble.

No, you failed to realise that when you started to talk about MP levels.
There are no MP levels, except self-invented levels.
But who knows about your self-invented levels?

Get it now? Good. Lets go ahead and accept now what we are, shall we?

Yes, I get it. I am a moron and a stupid SP player who doesn't know anything.
And you're the awesome uber MP civ player who knows everything, right?

Because as I've already explained, my main issues with the game are universal and apply to all styles of MP.

link?
I tend to ignore posts that are written by people who worship themselves before they go to sleep.
But I may make an exception to you, but please provide me with a link to your hollow arguments, and I will read them.

If you knew dick about what you were talking about you'd realize how many very long posts, and detailed posts, I have made about the problems with the game and how to fix them.

I've read a billion of posts about civ games.
I'm sorry that I don't know which books you have written about the subject.

Maybe you it's a good idea if you start to realise that you're just another civ player, not more important or less important then others. Your opinion is as valuable as mine. And you're not more or less famous for your opinion then I am.

Don't assume that people know your arguments by heart.
I don't even know the arguments of key-civ players like Locutus, Dale and Solver.

I have made about the problems with the game and how to fix them.

The problems you have with the game.
I hope you see the difference with your opinion and a fact.

Your opinion may be factual, of course, but not by default.

See, you're the problem with Civ4.

Wow, I am the main problem with civ4
That makes me pretty proud 8)

You don't know ****

How do you know that I don't know ****?
Why do you think that I don't know ****?
Are you the guy in my head?

yet you feel you should give your opinion because you beat the [censored] game on Immortal.

I've never said that, dude.
Can you please stop putting words in my mouth.

Oh, and can you stop using swearwords in your post as well? I'm not keen on moderating people with whom I'm in a debate, because I don't want to use my 'powers' in a subjective way, but don't make it to hard for me please.

This is why Civilization 5 probably won't even have MP.

Well, if Firaxis listens to me Civ5 will have MP, because I love MP, and in the test group I was one of the most vocal pro-MP people.

But hey, you already knew that, since you know everything about me

Tell me, what's my 2nd name? (just curious if you're really the guy in my head)

[Dulaak]

There are no MP levels, everything is noble.
The term 'levels' is always used for the AI levels.

Not in the MP world, maybe in the SP world. Again, just proving my point for me.

You are really hillarious.
Did you ever beat the AI above Emperor level in BtS on a huge map 10+ player game?

Again, thanks for making this so easy for me. I already made it clear I see no value in the AI and so I won't waste my time on it and I haven't since Civ2 SP. I'm sorry if you feel it's an accomplishment, to me, it's just too ridiculously easy and the way they make it hard is to simply handicap you. I guess I grew out of SP...don't feel bad if it takes you longer.

No, you failed to realise that when you started to talk about MP levels.
There are no MP levels, except self-invented levels.
But who knows about your self-invented levels?

Yeah...again, you prove everything I have ever said. Thanks. When you actually start playing on ladders and in real games, let me know. Until then, you're just a beginner SP player.

Yes, I get it. I am a moron and a stupid SP player who doesn't know anything.
And you're the awesome uber MP civ player who knows everything, right?

Sounds like we're starting to have an understanding.

link?
I tend to ignore posts that are written by people who worship themselves before they go to sleep.
But I may make an exception to you, but please provide me with a link to your hollow arguments, and I will read them.

They're in the OT, I post them there because people like you are all I'll find in the on topic. Even your hero Velociryx agreed with me on my points and said I should take it even further to make the game more complex. If you can't be bothered to search, I can't be bothered to repeat it for you.

I don't even know the arguments of key-civ players like Locutus, Dale and Solver.

Wow, all I can say is just wow. Those guys are nobodies, but then again, so are you so I'm not surprised.

The problems you have with the game.
I hope you see the difference with your opinion and a fact.

Your opinion may be factual, of course, but not by default.

My opinion is shared by the vast amount of people that quit the game in original Civ4, and by the players who have made the second mass exodus now that BTS has crushed their dreams of a good game. You wouldn't know that though because you don't play MP. And no, playing MP with the idiots on apolyton doesn't count.

You weren't a competitive player in Civ2, and you certainly aren't now. Civ4 has given new confidence to lesser players like you though to give input on the game, and sadly Firaxis actually listens.

[MasterDave]

Why is someone who has been banned previously been so blatantly allowed to come back, personally insult every other poster AND every moderator and basically create a whole six page thread rife with personal insults that adds nothing to the forum excest "civ 4 sucks and if anyone likes it they suck too..."

Just Wondering how this enhances the Apolyton community...

[Dulaak]

Because I'm one of the few posters left that isn't some newbie firaxis fanboy...like you for example.

[Robert]

Dulaak.... are you Eyes of Night?

I remember beating you in civ2 MP games
Well, maybe one or two.............
hehe, that's funny!

Again, thanks for making this so easy for me. I already made it clear I see no value in the AI and so I won't waste my time on it and I haven't since Civ2 SP.

Well, you said that beating the AI was easy, thus I ask if you ever did it on emperor/immortal or above.
If you haven't, then you're clearly just not capable to beat it, or maybe you are, but you don't know it.

And you didn't play civ SP since civ2?
Haha, that's really funny! Every good MP player understands that you need the AI to try new tactics on. Like professional soccer teams play against amateur teams before the competition start.

But you never played the civ4 AI, if I understand you correctly, and still you claim that you can beat it easily? haha, that's funny!

And like I said before, I'm a civ-fanboy, not a Firaxis fanboy.

Oh, and systematic debating is really not your thing.
You should start a blog or something. A place where you can just voice your opinion without getting interrupted.

You're not a real forum guy.

In fact it's suprising that a solo-guy like you is interested in MP games that much

[rah]

Don't feed the bear.

Our definition of MP is different than his narrow 1x1 games. There is no reconciling that difference of opinion.

We wouldn't enjoy his type of game and we know he wouldn't enjoy ours. We can accept a difference of opinion on that and he can't.

Don't feed the bear.

And yes, for 1x1, Civ4 is not the game you should be playing. Fortunately I don't play 1x1 since i'm a ignorant newb

[Dulaak]

Actually, I play team games too, always have. Plus, you are like the others Rah, you don't know enough about the mechanics of the game to debate it with me so you fall back to your tried and tested "Your strategies don't work anymore/you only play 1v1." Anyone who read my posts about the combat system, the city maintinence system, and the balance in regard to economy and military would be able to understand that those aspects apply to all forms of play. You don't realize this because you don't play on a high enough level to break the game, just like CyberShy. I told you before, stop pretending you're a good player and accept the fact that you're a middle aged man playing casually in a game made for 5 year olds.

[Robert]

Eyes, just post the save of a game in which you beated the AI at immortal level.
Huge map, 11 civs.

Just only to prove that you can do it.
If it's as simple as you state, that can't be a problem.

I know that you don't care about beating the AI, but you do care about convincing us that the AI sucks and the game sucks. Well, you can convince us about your superiority by posting a game in which you beated the Immortal AI (not even Deity) on a Huge map, 11 civs.

To proof that you didn't pick a savegame from someone else, name your capital "Eyes of Night".

[Dulaak]

I know that you don't care about beating the AI, but you do care about convincing us that the AI sucks and the game sucks. Well, you can convince us about your superiority by posting a game in which you beated the Immortal AI (not even Deity) on a Huge map, 11 civs.

I don't need to prove anything, playing the AI is for kids. Also, it's a bit hard to say that the AI doesn't suck when a fan made the AI better and they actually used it in BTS. I think that is the definition of sad right there. I wonder if this were any game other than Civ if the game company would be able to get away with something like that?

[Robert]

If it sucks and it's for kids, you can't have a problem beating it easily.

Just put your money where your mouth is mr all talk.

[Ellestar]

Originally posted by Dulaak
See, you're the problem with Civ4. Firaxis listens to people like you. You don't know ****, yet you feel you should give your opinion because you beat the god damn game on Immortal. This is why Civilization 5 probably won't even have MP.

Well, this is where you're wrong. I wonder, why don't you know a game development basics if you're a hardcore gamer? If you don't know at least something about it, you're at a disadvantage when you pick your games.

Game is just another product. Obviously, it's primary purpose is to make money. Just as obviosly, diehard fanatics who play on Deity (or even Emperor+) or MP freaks don't make a lot of sales. And for everyone else, game is perfectly fine as it is now, and changes meant to make it better for that very small group will probably make a game worse for a casual players. Unfortunately for us, developers know about that too

Actually, CyberShy is a much better representation of the views of a casual players than you (that "playing for fun" thing, playing singleplayer etc.) and he's skilled enough in a game so to listen his opinion about a game balance etc. So, naturally, his opinion is much more valuable than yours if Firaxis wants to make Civ so to make money.

Originally posted by CyberShy
Civ is first and most of all an SP game indeed.
But with large groups of dedicated players it's possible to play it in MP as an SP game as well. (see the RAH games and the diplomacy games in this forum).

With 'real civ' I meant a game that uses all of the game mechanics. Ok, it's still civ of course

Nah, in a perfect world maybe. But i bet in reality it's different. You probably don't have a group of a players with about equal skill. In that case, most likely the best way to win is to kill/choke/slow down some nearby noob and settle on his land. Starting from that, it's not like a high-difficulty SP game any longer (and low-difficulty SP game is a joke anyway). Diplomacy is completely different too. And so on.

Originally posted by CyberShy
Eyes, just post the save of a game in which you beated the AI at immortal level.
Huge map, 11 civs.

Just only to prove that you can do it.
If it's as simple as you state, that can't be a problem.

I know that you don't care about beating the AI, but you do care about convincing us that the AI sucks and the game sucks. Well, you can convince us about your superiority by posting a game in which you beated the Immortal AI (not even Deity) on a Huge map, 11 civs.

To proof that you didn't pick a savegame from someone else, name your capital "Eyes of Night".

I beaten AI on Deity in Warlods (it was Standart map IIRC). That's with just about ten games against AI (and i never played full games in MP, they were 110-130 turn limit games even if they didn't end sooner). So i guess other good MP players can do it too, it doesn't prove anything.