Return Of The King To Civ Gaming

[StrategicKingVa]

For anyone out there who does not know me, I am an old time Civ 2 player(played more multi player games then just about anybody in the world, not sure I am proud of that fact as I frittered away my 30's).
I then started working about 70 hours a week and had no time for gaming.
Today, however, I have people working for me in my office down here in Luna Pier Michigan and have freed up a lot of time while here at the office 70 hours a week I have moved more to a managerial over sight position and have plenty of time for gaming.
Now, I know nothing about Civ 4. The point of this thread is to acquire information on the game, from you who play frequently. Secondly, If information provided is inspiring, I will gladly buy the CD, research the rules and once again dominate the Civ world and be available for games.

Question 1- How does Civ 4 differ from Civ 2

Question 2- How technicaly involved is the game.
(in otherwords, has many layers of complexity been added with out much benifit)

Question 3- How long will games take, meaning more inline of how t he game changes per hour of game play.

Question 4 - What kinds of games do you like to play?

Any feedback will be apreciated.

Thanks Strat...

[Pinchak]

1. Too many ways to list

2. Many layers have been added, most are to the benifit of the game.

3. Game time is simular to civ2, depending on the game speed you choose.

4. For multiplayer pickup games, i prefer small map, 5-7 players FFA, panagea... just because people tend to quit out on larger scale games. Otherwise, the Terra map setting is probably my favorite. All civs start on one landmass, and the other landmass is up for grabs (think old world, new world). Makes for very interesting gameplay if you can get dedicated players (or single player).

[snoopy369]

In some ways it (at least Civ4 vanilla) is simpler than Civ2. Units don't have attack/defense but just 'power'. Trade routes are automatically created. Things like that.

It certainly has added complexities also; but I think a Civ2 player jumping in will be surprised at how similar the overall gameplay is. The one thing you'll take time to adjust to, probably, is resources, if you didn't play Civ3. Having to mine an iron hill to build swordsmen can be confusing at first if you don't expect it, but it's definitely a beneficial addition.

Different 'victory types' are in the game as well; instead of just space or conquest, you have domination (win by owning 2/3 of the world, makes the game go by faster in that late game mop up phase); Cultural (own three uber cultural cities); and diplomatic (convince the other teams to vote for you).

The game has several different "speeds" you can play it at, which refer to number of turns per game (not time per game, which is of course up to you). It plays a bit faster than previous versions, because not only was a lot of micromanaging taken out (like, you don't lose overflow of production, it gets applied to the next building down the line), but the automated systems (automated population working tiles, automated workers improving tiles) are a LOT better, and it is reasonable to leave workers set on automatic (especially in MP where you don't have time to manually improve everything when the game starts to get complicated). This improves dramatically in Civ4: Beyond the Sword, but even base Civ4 (vanilla) is much better than Civ2 this way.

Quick speed = like 400 turns or so; Normal Speed = 520; Epic and Marathon are longer (700 and 1000 or so, iirc). Normal is roughly Civ2 speed in terms of development. The faster and slower speeds have adjustments made to the amount of hammers (ie shields) things cost, how fast it takes a city to grow, etc., so it's actually pretty similar of a game. The longer speeds allow a bit more maneuvering with units and such, and allows early game units a longer lifespan (like the musketeer, who normally has a quite short lifespan).

I typically play either single player, standard to small map, 7 to 5 players, AI games, or multiplayer, either PTBS [a variation on PBEM games, where a server hosts the game and you connect once a day to play one turn] or single day MP [standard MP, one game in three or four hours].

Definitely give it a try - there's a demo available, the first 100 turns or something, which is enough to get a feel for it. Civ2 players generally disliked Civ3, but most Civ2 players were converted to Civ4 due to the similarities (and improvements... no pollution to clean up!!).

[deity]

Yeah, agreed.

As a vet CIV2 MP player I miss the WLTP day corruption

Nah, Civ 4 is way more realistic and less open to game play mechanic abuse...

[EyesOfNight1]

Don't bother strat. In the first 2 months of original Civ4 everyone quit who was good. Why? Because the game equalizes like no other game ever created. Gaining leads is almost impossible and when you do gain a lead, expect them to catch up to you fairly easily. The tech system makes it easier to research techs if you're behind, and harder to research techs if you're ahead. So the best tech lead you can hope for is to get catapults before the other guy. 1v1 gaming is pretty much dead. It simply doesn't really exist anymore, at least not even remotely on the level it did in Civ2. CanuckSoldier runs the MP community, he was DarkStorm in Civ2...in other words you have a bunch of net nannies and newbies running the community so don't expect to talk trash...ever or you'll be banned from the ladder. They'll even hunt down your ICQ conversations and ban you so you have to be a good little boy no matter where you are chatting.

BTS seems to be flopping, I knew it would based on their changes in gameplay and what I was hearing from beta testers. Go in the lobby and it's filled with a bunch of beginners...and not that many people total either. You, like me, like to dominate and play King. Don't bother, it's simply not possible and you'll only spend months trying to find a way to dominate only to find that the system has been specifically designed to prevent that. Call yourself Comrade Strategicking and join the hordes of others out there on one average level as you scrap for every little advantage you can. The ladder is an absolute joke, it's Cases ladder if you remember that from Civ2. I can go on and on about what's wrong with this game, but I can end this easily right now by saying that even Civ3 was better than Civ4 and frustration and disappointment is all that awaits you in Civ4. You can still catch me on ICQ these days same old number 45583438 I'll play Civ4 some with you if you want and show you first hand what I mean.

[EyesOfNight1]

Oh, one more thing, don't ever listen to what snoopy says. The guy is a total beginner with no MP experience who believes you yourself should program in fixes for gameplay problems. He's a firaxis apologist and an all around loser.

[EyesOfNight1]

Question 1- How does Civ 4 differ from Civ 2

Picture Deity level in Civ2 as far as corruption and how it forced less cities and basically tied your hands. Now, multiply that by 100 and you'll begin to understand the maintinence system in Civ4. I really can't do justice to the system through words alone. It's a horror you need to experience for yourself. Needless to say, you will never, ever, get a big city lead. If you get 2 more cities than the other guy consider it a job well done...which basically doesn't mean **** but at least you can feel somewhat superior. Basically think of Civ2 and how easy it was to dominate...now throw that out the window and picture youself slogging through mud for 200 turns as you work to get a point lead or some feeble semblance of a lead.

Question 2- How technicaly involved is the game.

They didn't add anything, they removed it. A 5 year old is now fully capable of playing Civilization. This is for your own good though as Firaxis has discovered that consumers do not have a high enough intelligence level to play anything remotely complex. Rejoice.

Question 3- How long will games take, meaning more inline of how t he game changes per hour of game play.

Unless the guy you're playing is just an absolute total idiot who has literally played the game for the first time, your games will last in the 1-2 hour range in a 1v1 mirror map tiny game.

Question 4 - What kinds of games do you like to play?

In MP...you'll actually find people playing OCC games now. Yes, that's right, one city challenge games in Mp. AWESOME! There are usually a few team games that are half way decent, even if the players aren't. Ladder games are hard to come by and well, the ladder just plain sucks. The only setting that has any skill at all is 1v1 mirror and people don't play that setting. Basically FFA (Free for all) and team games are all you're going to find in MP these days. I honestly would not even bother with the ladder. I can see with confidence it is the worst ladder I have seen in all my years online. I hope you aren't coming into this thinking that it will be like Civ2 because those days are over my friend. Gameleague was an absolute paradise in comparision with Civ4Players ladder. I haven't played seriously on the Civ4 ladder since December of 2005...actually I haven't played Civ4 seriously since then either if that is any indication of what I think of the game.

[snoopy369]

Don't listen to him, he's a known whiner and irritant

[LzPrst]

so much bile... I'm appalled.

my suggestion is, try it out, make your own conclusions. imo civ4>civ2>civ3. with bts i'd say imbapwn civ4>civ2. mechanics changed. for the better. but that's cause I never liked ICS. city specialization is an important part.

i hated civ3 from start to finish. i liked civ4 off the bat. it has only gotten better with the expansions. a lot of things were missing that existed in civ2 and SMAC. (grumble). with BtS a lot of them are back in, the good ones. all in all, Civ4 :BtS is a great game. imho of course.

[rah]

Yeah, what Eyes is saying is that they eliminated all his normal loopholes to the rules, and now it's a more balanced game. But don't be fooled, while it's more balanced those that understand the game better will almost always do better than those that don't. And it my opinion that makes it a better game.

[MJW]

Civ4's gameplay Warlord's final patch.

Non-Mirror 1v1 are totally broken in the wrong way. Eyes is right when he says no one plays mirror. If you don't follow the uberidea (get cats and spam them) you will die a terrible death. Also, someone gets a free win around 60%+ of the time beacause the get an 'overpowered' start. This is less bad in group MP because someone in a group MP game can make an inferor move and not die at once. But group MP would be broken and unfun if a bunch of high-end power gamers played together.

The loopholes are still there. In Civ2 and 3 it was ICS (which Eyes hates too). In Civ4 Warlords final it's cats+slavery. I am not hopeful that BtS will be balanced in MP. Blake's new aggesive AI is fun to play against. It can make a good player change his gameplan a lot. The base issue is that war is overpowered in MP and war sucks in the Civ games.

And why has Eyes changed his name to EyesOfNight1 and why is that okay?

[Ming]

Originally posted by MJW
And why has Eyes changed his name to EyesOfNight1 and why is that okay?

His primary account was banned... EoN1 was a DL so he could post. That one is now also banned. Stay tuned for his log on

[Pinchak]

Anyone who loafs around forums for the sole purpose of bashing a computer game has mental problems.

but at least you can feel somewhat superior

And perhaps sexual issues as well?


PS: Nice triple post.... freak.

[StrategicKingVa]

ITS SO GOOD TO BE BACK EYES, JUST FOR SUCH VILLIFYING POSTS. THANKFULLY CIV 4 IS THE TARGET OF YOUR RAGE,... SO FAR THIS TIME....
BY THE BY, Ill play an old fashion civ 2 game with you sometime, just icq me, you know for old time sakes...
its been over 3 years since I have been around...

[Dulaak]

I play Civ4 still from time to time, I have played only 1 game in like 3 months though. We can play some civ2 if you want, but I\'m really kind of burned out on that game. There\'s nothing left for me to do in it. What I\'d really like to do is find a new game to play where we can go make strategies and, I don\'t know, maybe has some decent gameplay which Civ4 clearly lacks.

Is this the ICQ number you\'re on? 159-997-386

You can catch me on 45583438 or on 427309907 on ICQ. I added your old ICQ number but haven\'t seen you on.