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The idea of a referee sounds like an eminently workable one, MMC. Now we just need to get a test game up and running to see if that theory actually works in practise
We've been throwing around the possiblity of making HOTW7 a PitBoss game, and I have been in full support of this. Another good reason is the ability to have an umpire who can see every piece of in-game chat, even the private stuff. If we ask an independant person to be our ref, then we could enforce my rule of announcing a tech trade before hand, by making so that we only have to announce to the ref. Who would then be duty bound to keep shtum unless something gets drastically out of hand and someone calls foul.
I asm still lost as to what the ref is going t obe watching for.
If you trade me a tech, despite any promises i make you, i should be able to trade that to any other person in game.
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
What I'm saying is... whilst you may trade any tech with anyone, you must announce it before hand... even to the point of "Civ X has agreed to trade Tech Y with me, I'll let you have it in exchange for Tech Z". The ref would be watching to make sure that all exchanges are agreed before hand by the too parties involved in the trade.
As for how a 5 turn limit would work... think of it as the time it takes to send an emissary who then haggles the techs, then comes back with the trade done.
Ceeforee v0.1 - The Unofficial Civ 4 Editor -= Something no Civ Modder should ever be without =- Last Updated: 27/03/2009
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there's no conspiracy"
Also a ref (or even a team of them, if necessary) could be a great way of bringing people in, who want to see what goes on, but don't want the commitment of posting in character.
Ceeforee v0.1 - The Unofficial Civ 4 Editor -= Something no Civ Modder should ever be without =- Last Updated: 27/03/2009
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there's no conspiracy"
I like the idea of viewers to learn what goes on, but it still concerns me why i have to annoucne who i am trading with.
Having not played a MP version of civ4 yet, doesnt the the two parties have t oagree to any trade for it to happen and then the game program sorts out the deal. surely we dont need a third party watching to make sure the techs are sent as this is automatic.
corect me if i am wrong but this is what occured in Single paly with AI.
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
That is correct, Rasputin. Game mechanics mean that only two parties are needed for any diplomatic deal, tech or otherwise. *But*, what I understand is that all players will report what is traded to the referee, who will keep quiet about all those deals, hence it still remains secret if the parties involved so desire, but at the same time there is still accountability.
It is to ensure that tech trades aren't excessive to the extent that the game becomes unbalanced; or if such concerns are raised during the game, it means that the referee can arbitate as he or she sees fit.
Tech trading can never be excessive. I would hope any ally of mine in the game gives me all the techs he has. if he doesnt then i wont be ally for very long.
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
The "you can only trade techs you researched yourself" rule was good for 1 very important reason. Prior to this, you had to have a race after every turn when a tech is made to check all other civs.
A very fast player could go to a neutral alliance and trade a new tech to that player for 500 gold. If he's fast he can ALSO go to the next player in the alliance and sell it for 750 gold before the first alliance member can say "hey I got this great new tech." and gives it to him for free.
Basicly the diplomacy doesn't have to do with being good at all, just being fast. With that rule in place when you trade a tech, you know who you are trading it with and who you AREN'T trading it with. You also don't need to check if someone is pulling a fast one on you....basicly it makes the deals more realistic and important.
Heres CyberShy (apolyton sage 8)) from France!
The keyboards here really suck!! Really hard to type a normal message here!
anyway, I disagree with the 1 tech trade per session rule. Take America in HOTWV, I didnt research any techs at a certain point in time and got all techs from my allies who I supplied with much money. We shouldnt block that kind of options! I think the "only trade techs you researched yourself or won in a war" worked very well. Deity is right though that we should inform subs more about this. We may add that we all put the techs we invented in the story thread, clearly listed, to keep us all updated, and agree that prior to ANY tech trade both parties should ALLWAYS ask the other trading party if (s)he invented the tech him or herself.
It may take a few days before I can response again: If you need a quick reaction from me, mail me through poly. I can read my email
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
The one thing I find annoying, but I think common sense should be enough to deal with, is the idea of starting a trade chat just to see what someone might be willing to giove you.
OTH I want to be able to keep the option to make an alliance based on making two seperate bee-lines, then trading the difference.
By allowing everything as long as the trades are agreed upon several turns in advance, then I feel this problem could be solved. The ref would simply be there to make sure that trades are carried out as agreed, and not carried out, then agreed upon. Also, having a ref could help solve other potential problems too.
EDIT: I wrote this at 4:00am (it's now 2:00pm) but I forgot to press the submit button.
Ceeforee v0.1 - The Unofficial Civ 4 Editor -= Something no Civ Modder should ever be without =- Last Updated: 27/03/2009
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there's no conspiracy"
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